[hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying

Lokkju Brennr lokkju at gmail.com
Fri Jan 18 17:05:47 CET 2013

Spider, I'm glad to see at least someone is considering the implications
from an LGBT perspective as well :)

two little tidbits I'd like to add to this discussion:

1) if your argument sounds silly when "women/woman/her/she" is replaced
with "men/man/him/he", perhaps you should rethink your arguments.  This can
be taken even further - try replacing the group identification term (women,
men, blacks, hispanics, etc) with another racial, cultural, or other group
identification term, and see how discriminatory it may sound.  This can
often help you identify your own inbuilt - and generally unidentified
- prejudices.

2) The elephant in the room really seems to be that no one want to examine
the question *who* we want to make the space attractive to.  I could give
example after example, but it really comes down to the question of just how
much freedom of action and expression we're (as groups, and individuals)
willing to give up in order to make someone else more comfortable when
their own socially constructed reality intersects with ours.

I do think that what we're really getting around to is a discussion on what
standards of behavior are acceptable - which I'd consider very valuable.
 If we're going to discuss what those should be, with the understanding
that they'll vary space-to-space, I'd like to see people considering these
1) the behavioral standards should be discrimination neutral on their face.
 No gender, racial, or culture specific references should be used.
2) the behaviors or their effects should be quantifiable, measurable, and
predictable.  Anything dealing with emotions are feelings immediately
disqualified - not because they are not important, but because there is no
way to quantify them.  If you have a standardizable way to quantify
emotions or feelings, I'd love to hear about it.

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:12 AM, spider <spider at spiderwebz.nl> wrote:

> On 18.01.2013 14:59, Bill French wrote:
>> How do you codify the difference as one is acceptable, the
>> other is not?
> Well, quite easy. Don't google them as a piece of meat you would like to
> get your hands on, but because you are interested in the person itself.
> Whether it's a woman or a man.
> Grtz,
> Spider
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