[hackerspaces] Next steps -

Sun Apr 14 22:16:35 CEST 2013

Issue the first is a non-issue : the website is online, functional and
working well.

II is easy to solve : have the content easily mirrored in many independent
servers, so that if Astera decides to join the Cult of Eris and dissolves
the servers in acid or Paul decides that wiping out the whole disks is the
only way to go, we have functional mirrors.

This has always been the open source way : have a dictator but the ability
to fork if s/he becomes crazy. It is just a wiki and a ML, it is not that
hard to reboot...

Someone at the Lyon Open Lab set up an ikiwiki and I must say that I love
the idea : all your data is in a git repository, so mirroring it is very easy.

On 14/04/13 22:03, Sean Bonner wrote:
> My approach is always to solve the least amount of problems as possible,
> because you can always lump more problems on to things and turn molehills
> into mountains and whatnot. I think the talk of "foundations" caused people
> to create a whole bunch of problems that actually don't exist and thusly
> don't need to be solved. Given that this whole discussion is even
> happening, there are at least 2 real problems that I can see, the rest of
> the stuff kind of solves itself once those two are resolved.
> 
> Issue the first: There are a small number of people with all the
> responsibility of what to do with the site. Those people are busy, and just
> keeping the site online is a bunch of work, so not much time is spent
> thinking about how to make the site better or what else it could be doing.
> 
> Problem II: Shit is opaque. There is "the admin" and "the community" and
> never the twain shall meet. Which leads to confusion and suspicion and blah
> blah blah blah blah.
> 
> I really think that's it.
> 
> So, coming up with a "foundation" or a "council" or a "board" or whatever
> the fuck you want to call it - independent of any bullshit legal entity -
> enables a resolution to those issues by creating a list of concerns
> (keeping the site online, improving the site, keeping the community updated
> on said improvements, etc...) and tasking a group of people with dealing
> with those concerns. And some set period of time where those peoples
> actions are reviewed and either they are kept in that place or they are
> replaced by other people who have more time/interest/etc
> 
> To some extent that exists already. There are people with access,
> permissions, and people without. So it's really just a matter of
> crystalizing what the people with access should be doing.
> 
> I don't think there's any value in creating a whole bunch of problems to
> solve. I think just making a few things more clear/obvious takes care of it.
> 
> I mean, FFS we're talking about a website. It's not a global governing body
> nor should it be.
> 
> -s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Yves Quemener <quemener.yves at free.fr
> <mailto:quemener.yves at free.fr>> wrote:
> 
>     > which involves admitting that none of us
>     > knows the perfect answer - and come up with a solution that most think
>     > will work
> 
>     I am not sure if this will qualify as 1. or 2. but I still don't understand
>     the problem you are trying to solve. I think I read all the messages in
>     this discussion, and I only identified three things that could be solved by
>     a central entity :
> 
>     A. centralization of legal resources (for which countries?)
>     B. giving a Goal, an Aim and an Inspiration to the hackerspaces of the
>     world.
>     C. Give a sens of unity to the movement.
> 
>     There has been other proposals, but all the other I have seen can be or are
>     currently solved by independent projects that it makes sense to rely on.
> 
>     More importantly, I see no task that any hackerspace would be willing to
>     give money for, except maybe the legal help, but then again, the EFF may be
>     a safer bet if you are in US. IF you are targeting hackerspaces outside US,
>     are you ready to cover all the legal systems out there?
> 
>     B. requires a charismatic leader or a strong driver in an awesome project.
>     This is a pre-requisite, you have to have it first before making a
>     foundation or council.
> 
>     C. is actually doable without funds but has been attempted before. It could
>     take the shape of a charter (maybe a modular one, a la creative commons?),
>     that hackerspaces agree or not to follow. Fablabs actually have this sort
>     of things.
> 
> 
>     On 14/04/13 17:12, Sean Bonner wrote:
>     > The way I see it we have two choices at this point.
>     >
>     > 1. We decide to work together - which involves admitting that none of us
>     > knows the perfect answer - and come up with a solution that most
>     think will
>     > work (I'm aware there is no way to ever make everyone happy) and try to
>     > create a resource that is valuable to people interested in starting
>     > hackerspaces as well as valuable to people already involved with them.
>     >
>     > ~or~
>     >
>     > 2. We continue being snarky and bashing/insulting each other.
>     >
>     >
>     > I'm cool with either option. While I think there's massive potential
>     for a
>     > shared resource and I point people to the hackerspace patterns all the
>     > time, my hackerspaces won't live or die based on anything that happens on
>     > hackerspaces.org <http://hackerspaces.org> <http://hackerspaces.org>,
>     one of the benefits of a
>     > decentralized system such as this. And I have over 9000 hours of trolling
>     > experience so I can just sit around laughing in everyones faces too.
>     Either
>     > way.
>     >
>     > -s
>     >
>     >
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>     >
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sean Bonner
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