[hackerspaces] [Eviction] Call for Support for les Hauts Lieux

[john arclight]

I will say that I have always been a little confused when I see
long-vacant commercial properties rotting here (Southern California.)
It seems to me that, in a place with high real estate prices, property
taxes, etc that it would not make sense to leave a place vacant for
long.

You would be better off renting your warehouse out to a couple of guys
making surfboads or something and at least have a caretaker and
recover some expenses.

But it appears that landlords around here are never interested in
doing any kind of short-term lease at anything below market rate, even
if there is no demand for their place.

Perhaps the owners of some properties use them as a tax write-off, or
are afraid that it will be very difficult to get rid of their "low
dollar' tenant if they get a serious offer?

Has anyone here ever had success with getting someone to rent you a
disused industrial building for your space?


Arclight
http://shop.23b.org


On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Guyzmo <guyzmo at lasuitelogique.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been involved with La Suite Logique hackerspace in Paris which also
> hosted by a squat (which will sadly close in a few days). So, I've been
> wondering the same thing as you are.
>
> I'm going to tell you only about the French example that I know well,
> but each country has its own rules (ask Kugg, his experience in Sweden
> has been another story).
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:42:35AM -0400, Matt Joyce wrote:
>> I am curious, I know I've been critical of the "squatting" approach before
>> in the past, and still am.  But this is an honest question, just curious.
>> At least in the states, when an owner has property that they aren't actively
>> maintaining they can be liable for injuries that occur on the property.
>> [...]
>
> In France, the same rule apply. If you're away in holidays, a burglar
> gets in you home, fall down in your stairs and break his leg. Then he
> can sue you for having an unsafe stairway, as well as you can sue him
> for illegally introducing into your home.
>
> Another example, if you're in your home, take a gun (given you have a
> licence to own one, which is not a formality) and shoot the burglar,
> he can sue you for being shot by you.
>
>> [...]
>> Can they sue the land owner for not meeting building
>> codes or meeting safety codes relevant to the activities of the squatting
>> hackspace they are ignorant of?
>
> Well, in the situation of a squat things get a little different. First
> of all, in Paris, and some other cities, there's a decree made in 1947
> (and which has never been revoked, though it has not been used since 50
> years) for property requisition that was intended to host families who
> have lost their buildings in the empty ones that were empty, the time to
> rebuild the city.
>
> And once you're in the place for a few weeks and you can proove it, the
> legitimate owners of the building can't expulse you using the force.
> They have to sue you for violation of the property right (article 17.2
> of the universal declaration) and usually the squatters use the decree
> as leverage for their defense.
>
> This does not work all the time, but once you get a trial, the squatters
> have won, which means they can have the place for them for a few monthes
> to a few years. And once the trial has begun, the people that had their
> names on the procedure are liable for the place instead of the
> legitimate owner.
>
> Of course, one shall prefer to squat a state-owned abandonned place
> instead of a private owned, only because the state have some kind of
> responsibility to keep projects going on the places that the tax payer
> pay for.
>
>> I know europeans tend not to be the horrendous liability sue happy land that
>> the US is, and I love em for it.  But it seems like there would be
>> situations in which the land owner is responsible for the activities of
>> others on their unwatched property.  Especially if third parties are harmed
>> as a result.
>
> Well, that's true we're not much into sueing for anything like americans
> do. But, the juridic machine, at least in France, could be the one
> described by Kafka in his book "The Trial".
>
> I hope this will enlighten you a bit about the squats. As I see it, a
> squat is not a property theft, but a property loan, because in the end,
> the legitimate owners always gets his good back, after years neglecting
> the place.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Guyzmo
> La Suite Logique
>
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