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Mon Nov 9 20:01:52 CET 2009

to offer to Hackerspace members in general, and what we might offer to
certain sister groups. For instance, members of Hack Rolla that travel
from St. Louis to school and back may be granted key access for when
they are home and perhaps members of AR who are also attending Rolla
may get the same. However, a new member from NYR may get escorted
access, but probably wouldn't be given key access until he's been
around a while.

A lot of it is going to be based on the individual initially, unless
close ties are established with the group leaders and everyone
involved becomes comfortable with the ability of each group to weed
out those who would betray us and steal our cool stuff. (And really,
that's the only real barrier here. If we could just automatically
trust everyone, then we'd have no issues in handing other hackerspace
members the keys to our room full of toys, but we have a
responsibility to people in the group who are willing to donate or
loan expensive tools or devices to us to make sure we protect them
appropriately, and there are always safety issues when dealing with
power tools that are able to cut off fingers and noses.)


On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Sean Bonner <seanbonner at> wrote:
> I think the misunderstanding was that I was talking about the
> "automatic basic" which seems kind of universal, and you were talking
> about the full reciprocal which I agree is a more specific agreement
> between spaces.
> In my example from before Crash Space (which is generally a members
> only space) welcomes all members of any hackerspace to come to the
> space at any time, but those visitors would not get keys, and would
> not get a vote. If we extended the key/vote thing to people outside of
> Los Angeles it would likely be on a person by person basis, not on any
> member from X-space. But we want any member from X-space to feel
> welcome to stop by when they are in town.
> -s
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Far McKon <farmckon at> wrote:
>>> simmer down now, that isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that
>>> right now, pre-this-wiki-page it seems there is a general all people
>>> from hackerspaces are welcome at other hackerspaces policy that we all
>>> agree on.
>> Agreed
>>> =A0It might be unspoken but when I asked if anyone had been
>>> denied access to any other space everyone agreed that hadn't happened
>>> so we're talking about formalizing something that is already working
>>> fine and without problems.
>> I think we are miscommunicating on two points there. I'm not talking
>> about formalization, just listing existence of other agreements.
>> Second is that the goal
>> is to list agreemnts between spaces that are more than just 'you can
>> visit us while someone is in the space' level agreements.
>> The goal of that page (from my point of view) was to list situations
>> where there was more of a policy than simply 'you're always welcome as
>> a guest' (which is the blanket case) but to list more in-depth access
>> options that some spaces have created.
>>> You are asking spaces to create a white list of other spaces they
>>> accept which is way more restrictive than the current situation.
>> That is not what I am asking, and if it's unclear, please let me know
>> how. What I was trying to ask was for spaces to list themselves when
>> they have more in-depth collaboration that accepting other hackers as
>> visitors.
>>> Someone looking at that list who didn't see the name of the
>>> hackerspace-A where they were a member of next to hackerspace-B might
>>> assume they aren't welcome there when it fact the real issue could be
>>> simply hackerspace-B being unaware of hackerspace-As existence.
>> Sure, so maybe we should add a 'Almost all spaces accept other
>> hackerspcae members as visitors' section on the top of the page. =A0The
>> collabortion is labeled as levels of 'cross membership', not
>> visitor-ship or friendship to indicate that it's not just visiting,
>> but having a deeper collaboration.
>>> I'm not assuming anything, this is what we've been talking about in
>>> this discussion so far. So far everyone has said members of other
>>> hackerspacers are welcome, and no one has said only members from X but
>>> not from Y are welcome.
>> Sorry if I put words in your mouth on assumptions, but based on what
>> you were saying, that is how it came across to me. The descriptions of
>> the levels of cross membership are more in depth that 'others hackers
>> are welcome to visit or use our space'.
>>> The norm seems that all members of all hackerspaces are welcome at
>>> others, the rare exception should be the thing that is noted.
>> Yes, and accepted as guests (usually if someone is already in the
>> space) but not a automatic members, or getting keys, or other member
>> benefits like voting, server admin, being able to take equipment home,
>> or any other space-member benefits, etc.
>> I *thought* those descriptions I wrote clearly describe more than a
>> 'come visit or work at our space' level of interaction.If they are not
>> clear that they are indicating more than that, can you fix them? Or
>> let me know how to clarify that, so I can fix it?
>> cantankerous, and hack on,
>> - Far
>> ----
>> =A0"Making things awesome, =A0making awesome thing=
>> "Creatively Maladjusted"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at
> --
> Sean Bonner
> - homebase
> - get local
> Unless agreed upon, assume everything in this e-mail might be blogged.
> Sent from Los Angeles, CA, United States
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