You would still need some oleic acid for the FeCl recipe as well, right? That seems to be our main bottleneck right now...<br><br>I could swing by Sudoroom this evening, but I'm still in Livermore right now. And if we don't have any oleic acid it'd be rather pointless...<br>
<br>Patrik<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tracy Jacobs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kinetical@comcast.net" target="_blank">kinetical@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hey Patrick,<div><br></div><div>Are you ready to do some ferro fluid stuff this evening? If so, we should meet before dark and work outside probably. Matt told me there is an alley behind the building we could probably mix up messy toxic stuff in. I am going to try my recipe with the ferric chloride probably this weekend at home in my yard. It just seems like I need to set up a controlled environment outside to do that. But if anybody wants to come help me they can! I'll come by Sudo room tonight if you are ready to start on your recipe? Let me know.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div></font></span><div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Tracy</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><div><div>On Jul 18, 2012, at 12:12 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite">Yeah, very nice one. It kinda looks like they just used one of those conical step drill bits (aka unibit) with an electromagnet underneath. The shape of steel drill bit bends the magnetic field lines, so the magnetic field is actually a bit stronger on the sharp edges of the drill bit. And as you crank up the electromagnet, the ferrofluid gets pulled up to those areas with the highest field strength.<br>
<br>I can kinda understand why it's doing what it's doing, but being able to predict how it's going to behave is a whole different matter...<br><br>Patrik<br><br>PS: if you want to see some entirely incomprehensible behavior, we should try mixing some ferrofluid with oobleck (corn starch + water non-Newtonian fluid) on a vibrating plate: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp1wUodQgqQ" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp1wUodQgqQ</a><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Matthew Senate <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com" target="_blank">mattsenate@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Wow, I knew I'd seen something like that before, friend of friends' music video:<br><br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zemkodUsPEw" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zemkodUsPEw</a><br> <br>
// Matt<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:patrikd@gmail.com" target="_blank">patrikd@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I've seen that FeCl3 based recipe in a few other places. This may be the original source: <a href="http://www.sci-spot.com/Chemistry/liqimag.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sci-spot.com/Chemistry/liqimag.htm</a><br>
<br> You definitely don't need all the fancy lab equipment, just some measuring cups and an old pot to boil the stuff in. You do need to boil off a lot of ammonia - probably not something you'd want to do indoors. <br>
<br>Electromagnets are everywhere - any electrical motor has electromagnets inside, and you can always wind one yourself with some copper wire around an iron core, like a nail. I've got some small DC motors in the Sudoroom locker at TechLiminal that we can scavenge for small magnets and electromagnets.<br>
<br>Patrik<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Tracy Jacobs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kinetical@comcast.net" target="_blank">kinetical@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><a href="http://www.gdiy.com/projects/liquid-magnets-ferrofluid/index.php" target="_blank">http://www.gdiy.com/projects/liquid-magnets-ferrofluid/index.php</a><div><br></div><div>This looks like a good recipe. It uses steel wool for the metal. I do have some Ferric Chloride from etching pcbs in my garage. I can get kerosene and ammonia, and you found a source for Oleic Acid. It doesn't sound like we would need very much 10ml.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Do you have some of the lab equipment it calls for?</div><div><br></div><div>Are you working from a recipe? Do you want to try both?</div><div><br></div><div>I have a dogwalking business and a full schedule tomorrow., so I don't know that I'll be ready by tomorrow. I won't have a chance to run to Berkeley and get Oleic acid anyway. Maybe Friday or the weekend would be better. I think I have a couple old hard drives if I can find them in this mess. They are supposed to have good magnets.</div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUz1ZI-w6LQ&feature=BFa&list=PLD113CD853249B687" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUz1ZI-w6LQ&feature=BFa&list=PLD113CD853249B687</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>How could they do this do you think? All the movement is interesting to be sure. They are talking about using fluxes too, but it is not clear to me. Do you know what they are talking about? It almost looks like they pump the fluid up from the center.</div>
<div><br></div><div> Do you have a link for the electromagnets you are talking about or did you make them? I can't wait to try this!</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for your help. Let's talk tomorrow, I don't get home till about 5.</div>
<span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">Tracy</font></span><div><div><div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 17, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:</div> <br><blockquote type="cite">
I was thinking that some non-magnetic material would make it easier to manipulate the overall magnetic field using some low-powered electromagnets. Hence Alu foil instead of cast iron.<br><br> Actually, we could just start from a cheap plastic skull (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Anatomical-Chart-Company-CS20-Life-Size/dp/B000VKSDYE" target="_blank">$17.27 on Amazon</a>, or dig through your Halloween closet), and implant some magnets to get the ferrofluid to stick.<br>
<br>Patrik<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Tracy Jacobs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kinetical@comcast.net" target="_blank">kinetical@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Patrick,<div><br></div><div>I love your idea ! Cast iron would be better than foil to be sure. Maybe greenman would be a fitting subject.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm ok with Wed or Fri, maybe Friday if I have to run around and get supplies too.</div>
<span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">Tracy</font></span><div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 17, 2012, at 1:12 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:</div> <br><blockquote type="cite">
I could do Wednesday or Friday - prefer Wednesday. I can bring my small sample of cemmercial ferrofluid for comparison with the DIY versions.<br><br>Does anyone have access to oleic acid to use as a surfactant? That should keep the ferrite particles from clumping together, and make for a much smoother ferrofluid. Supposed to be around 5% magnetite (3-15% by volume), 10% surfactant (6-30%), and 85% oil (55-91%). <br>
<br>Someone on Instructables mentioned you can also get ferrite at a pottery supply store for $2-$5 a pound. Know anyone into pottery? Anyone want to check out Leslie Ceramic Supply, 1212 San Pablo in Berkeley, just North of Gilman?<br>
<br>In terms of art pieces, I think it would be really cool to do an animated sculpture covered in ferrofluid, with electromagnets hidden inside so you can change the texture of the ferrofluid. The simplest version could just be a face molded out of aluminum foil, with small magnets embedded to get the ferrofluid to cover the surface. Then put some electromagnets behind the face, so you can change its expression by manipulating the ferrofluid.<br>
<br>Patrik<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Tracy Jacobs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kinetical@comcast.net" target="_blank">kinetical@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi All,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for expressing interest in doing a Ferrofluid experiment together. I'd love to make our project the centerpiece of our Art Murmur show. Art Murmur is in two weeks. I asked Jake to share his experiment during Art Murmur. He made his in like a day, and it turned out really well. He mixed MICR with cooking oil and put it between two slides with a magnetized paper clip. That was projected on a wall for a really interesting painterly effect. Very small scale and inexpensive, too.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So, we need Ferrofluid. I know Patrick ordered some iron oxide, and he has sent us some good links. There are different methods we can try for making the fluid ourselves, because it can be expensive to buy. I want to try a couple different recipes. Patrick can you get back to me with your reccomendations for what we should try and what we still need to buy for that?</div>
<div><br></div><div>I am interested in magnetizing a couple of iron sculptures that I made a long time ago. From what I understand this involves wrapping them in coated copper wire and charging them. If you find any interesting steel or iron objects, these would be good to play with. </div>
<div><br></div><div>We also need magnets. Powerful magnets can be taken from old hard drives, so if you have any old hard drives bring them. I will bring tools. Or if you have any magnets, bring those.</div><div><br></div>
<div>We should meet up soon. Could you let me know your availability? I have Weds night, Fri night, or the weekend anytime.</div><div><br></div><div>Tracy</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.funkyautomata.com" target="_blank">www.funkyautomata.com</a></div>
<div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 16, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Jehan Tremback wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">Wow, imagine making a batch with a 44 lb bag, using a gigantic electromagnet, and creating the hugest ferrofluid sculpture known to man. Might be messy if the power cut out though.<div>
<br></div><div>-Jehan<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Anca | Tech Liminal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anca@techliminal.com" target="_blank">anca@techliminal.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word">The rust lady said she got all her supplies at Michael's - but that they weren't well-labeled. Look in the patina isle (yes, there is a patina isle!)<div>
<br></div><div>Anca.</div> <div><br></div><div><div> <span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
-=-=-=-=-<br><b>Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal</b><br><a href="mailto:anca@techliminal.com" target="_blank">anca@techliminal.com</a><br>M: <a href="tel:%28510%29%20220-6660" value="+15102206660" target="_blank">(510) 220-6660</a><br>
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<div><div> <br><div><div>On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:14 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">I got some ferrofluid from Inventables a while back - wasn't too expensive: $13.60 for a fluid ounce. Haven't tried mixing it with any water colors yet though.<br>
<br><a href="https://www.inventables.com/technologies/magnetic-fluid" target="_blank">https://www.inventables.com/technologies/magnetic-fluid</a><br> <br>I also noticed that the person teaching the "Create Real Rust" class at Workshop Weekend had a jar of atomized iron powder that I was thinking would probably work fairly well to make ferrofluid. May be worth checking some art stores with a magnet - or just ask that teacher where she got hers.<br>
<br>I think the Exploratorium or another similar booth had a nice ferrofluid demo at Maker Faire one or two years ago. Just a big glob of ferrofluid in a glass jar, and some powerful magnets that people could move by turning a wheel.<br>
<br>Patrik<br><br>PS: Doesn't quite classify as a ferro"fluid", but check out the video about this guy's work:<br><br><a href="http://jolanvanderwiel.nl/?p=272" target="_blank">http://jolanvanderwiel.nl/?p=272</a><br>
<br> <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Tracy Jacobs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kinetical@comcast.net" target="_blank">kinetical@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><a href="http://www.thecreatorsproject.com/blog/ferrofluids-go-next-level-technicolor-in-fabian-oefners-amazing-images" target="_blank">http://www.thecreatorsproject.com/blog/ferrofluids-go-next-level-technicolor-in-fabian-oefners-amazing-images</a><br>
<div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" face="Helvetica"><b>From: </b></font><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" face="Helvetica">Tracy Jacobs <<a href="mailto:kinetical@comcast.net" target="_blank">kinetical@comcast.net</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" face="Helvetica"><b>Date: </b></font><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" face="Helvetica">July 12, 2012 5:29:10 PM PDT</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" face="Helvetica"><b>To: </b></font><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" face="Helvetica">SUDOroom list <<a href="mailto:sudoroom@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">sudoroom@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" face="Helvetica"><b>Subject: </b></font><font style="font:12.0px Helvetica" size="3" face="Helvetica"><b>[sudoroom] Ferro Fluids?</b></font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div> </div><div>Hi,<br><br>I was wondering if anyone would be interested in doing some experimentation with Ferro fluids as a group project? If we get nice results we could put them in the box office next Art Murmur. I've been wanting to try that for a long time, and there are some methods that are free or under ten dollars cheap.<br>
<br><a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-ferrofluid-in-5-minutes/" target="_blank">http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-ferrofluid-in-5-minutes/</a><br><br>A nicer example:<br><br><a href="https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#%21/photo.php?fbid=503571739658618&set=a.133255743356888.23929.115384328477363&type=1&theater" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/photo.php?fbid=503571739658618&set=a.133255743356888.23929.115384328477363&type=1&theater</a><br>
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