<html><head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">True, we can do both. <br>
<br>
Credit Unions have their own form of insurance - <span>NCUA - which is
essentially identical to FDIC insurance.<br>
<br>
Delaware is a popular spot (50% of public companies are incorporated
there) not simply for consistent laws but for also for the lack of usury
laws. Think of the payday loan industry... made possible by the
Delaware legislature. <br>
<br>
Aside from the slick web interface, the only difference between WePay
and Paypal (take a look at the Patriot Act disclaimer on the WePay
website) is that WePay doesn't freeze accounts as often as PayPal.
Their association with Occupy has essentially allowed them to run the
textbook business case of insurgent start-up vs the entrenched
competitor. First rule, find out who your competition excludes and make
them your advocates - check! <br>
</span><span><br>
Flattr is a different beast altogether. It looks more promising. <br>
<br>
The most interesting idea last night was the possibility of forming a
Super PAC. I think we should give it serious though and consideration. I
would love to run a campaign against the Delaware legislature.....<br>
<br>
</span><br>
<blockquote style="border: 0px none;"
cite="mid:4FBE82EF.9070704@oaklandlocal.com" type="cite">
<div style="margin-left:40px"><hr style="border:none 0;border-top:1px
dotted #B5B5B5;height:1px;margin:0;" class="__pbConvHr"><br></div>
<table style="padding-top: 5px;" class="__pbConvTable">
<tbody><tr><td style="padding-top:4px;" valign="top"><img
src="cid:part1.08020209.04080905@gmail.com"
photoaddress="eddan@oaklandlocal.com" photoname="Eddan Katz"
name="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></td><td
style="padding-left:5px;" valign="top"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:eddan@oaklandlocal.com" style="color:#2057EF
!important;text-decoration:none !important;">Eddan Katz</a><br><font
color="#888888">Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:50 AM</font></td></tr></tbody>
</table>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:35px;" __pbrmquotes="true"
class="__pbConvBody"><br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Thanks for anthropologicizing the situation, Sudo Agent! No reason
why we can't do both.<br>
We'll open a local credit union account, and use WePay for online
transactions.<br>
Any credit union recommendations?<br>
<br>
WePay, by the way, is associated with mid-size banks in order to
qualify to be FDIC insured. Otherwise, if you lose your .02c, you'd
have no hope of getting it back. The fact that the banks they are
associated with are based in Delaware only tells you that Delaware's
corporate laws are the most predictable for resolving disputes. <br>
<br>
As far as I understand it, WePay is basically serving as an
intermediary enabling a wider population to be able to make
transactions. They've figured out how to extend the assurance they
can guarantee; so that people and organizations could make
transactions they otherwise couldn't. <br>
<br>
You're absolutely right though, that WePay is not based in Oakland.
They're in Palo Alto. Maybe we should offer to build one of the
local credit union's web interface? I think the combination of WePay
and Flattr for online transactions would probably be a good idea. <br>
<br>
-Eddan<br>
[self-appointed Exchequer]<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>sudoroom
mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sudoroom@lists.hackerspaces.org">sudoroom@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/sudoroom">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/sudoroom</a><br></div><hr
style="border: none 0;border-top:1px dotted
#B5B5B5;height:1px;margin:15px 0 0 0;" class="__pbConvHr"><br></div>
<table style="padding-top: 5px;" class="__pbConvTable">
<tbody><tr><td style="padding-top:4px;" valign="top"><img
src="cid:part1.08020209.04080905@gmail.com"
photoaddress="eddie.tejeda@gmail.com" photoname="Eddie A Tejeda"
name="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></td><td
style="padding-left:5px;" valign="top"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:eddie.tejeda@gmail.com" style="color:#2057EF
!important;text-decoration:none !important;">Eddie A Tejeda</a><br><font
color="#888888">Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:40 AM</font></td></tr></tbody>
</table>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:35px;" __pbrmquotes="true"
class="__pbConvBody"><br>Great research Micheal.<br><br>I think keeping
money in the local economy is definitely a higher priority than friendly
web interface.<br><br>--<br>Eddie A Tejeda<br><br><br><br><br
clear="all"><br>-- <br>Eddie A Tejeda<br><br>
<hr style="border: none 0;border-top:1px dotted
#B5B5B5;height:1px;margin:15px 0 0 0;" class="__pbConvHr"><br></div>
<table style="padding-top: 5px;" class="__pbConvTable">
<tbody><tr><td style="padding-top:4px;" valign="top"><img
src="cid:part1.08020209.04080905@gmail.com"
photoaddress="mattsenate@gmail.com" photoname="Matthew Senate"
name="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></td><td
style="padding-left:5px;" valign="top"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com" style="color:#2057EF
!important;text-decoration:none !important;">Matthew Senate</a><br><font
color="#888888">Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:13 AM</font></td></tr></tbody>
</table>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:35px;" __pbrmquotes="true"
class="__pbConvBody"><br>** Please Read Voting + Motions at bottom of
minutes **<br><br>In short, tonight at the meeting we decided that all
who are present at our weekly meeting are welcome to vote on making
non-binding decisions for Sudo Room during this interim period, with the
requirement to report back via email and record these motions on the
wiki. This is a great way to move forward in this period before we
figure out the exact terms of decision-making (who, how, etc) which we
can now figure out as we actually move forward to opening a room.<br>
<br>I'll move this over to the wiki tomorrow, must sleep.<br><br>----<br><br><div
id="magicdomid241" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>5/23/2012
- Meeting Minute</b></span><span
class="author-a-z76zz69z0z77zz84zko5z82z3ymfy9z80z b"><b>s</b></span></div>
<div id="magicdomid243" class="ace-line"><br></div><div
id="magicdomid1100" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Attendees</b></span><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">: Patrik,
Timon, Marina, Phil, Eddie, Victoria, Michael, Michel, Angela, Rick,
Eddan, Patrick, Matt</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1102" class="ace-line"><br></div><div
id="magicdomid2062" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Marginalia:</b></span><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z"> Space and
Time form a curved surface - and our new business. </span><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>- Nerd
Night Bay Area happening near last week of October talk to Rick - </b></span></div>
<div id="magicdomid3" class=""><br></div><div id="magicdomid4" class=""><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Old
Business</b></span></div><div id="magicdomid342" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-2f4t3z82zz78zz65zz71zz88zas7z75zwz68z">1. Model + Budget
+ Income investigations (e.g Noisebridge, other)</span><span
class="author-a-sbd2um4x6mo21nwm"> - Jenny</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid344" class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">(ping via
email)</span></li></ul></div><div id="magicdomid1280" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-2f4t3z82zz78zz65zz71zz88zas7z75zwz68z">2. Tax Structure
Options:</span><span class=""> Eddan, Matt, Eddie</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1289" class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">** Eddan
and Timon (zoning) have done research, neither as Lawyers (see below)</span></li>
</ul></div><div id="magicdomid403" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-2f4t3z82zz78zz65zz71zz88zas7z75zwz68z">3. Distilling
Decision Maker/Community Options (Matt, Marina, Rachel, Jenny, Timon)</span></div><div
id="magicdomid504" class="ace-line">
<ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">This is
translated into future decision-making options (once we open a space),
since we have an interim solution for now</span></li>
</ul></div><div id="magicdomid523" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-2f4t3z82zz78zz65zz71zz88zas7z75zwz68z">4. Most
transparent process </span><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">for making
decisions</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid547" class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">This is
also touched on below</span></li></ul></div><div id="magicdomid548"
class="ace-line">
<span class="author-a-2f4t3z82zz78zz65zz71zz88zas7z75zwz68z">5.
Determining important deadlines</span></div><div id="magicdomid614"
class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Done,
please expect an email to be directed to a space on the wiki for this!</span></li>
</ul></div><div id="magicdomid631" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-2f4t3z82zz78zz65zz71zz88zas7z75zwz68z">6. Clean up
listing of table of properties</span></div><div id="magicdomid663"
class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1">
<li><span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Begun,
needs more love, more listings, etc.</span></li></ul></div><div
id="magicdomid16" class=""><br></div><div id="magicdomid664"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">==
Break-out Groups ==</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid704" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">1.
Note-cleaning and -posting</span></div><div id="magicdomid898"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">2. Notable
date / deadline / calendar comprehension (initiated, will be posted for
editing on wiki)</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1000" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Decisions
That Need Deadlines: </b></span></div><div id="magicdomid1008"
class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number2" start="1">
<li><span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Space.
(Before end of June = negotiation w/ EBALC; space would be ~November)</span></li></ol></div><div
id="magicdomid1009" class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number2" start="2">
<li><span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z s"><s>Banking
Structure (i.e. what to do w/ our donations collected)</s></span></li></ol></div><div
id="magicdomid1010" class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number2" start="3">
<li><span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z s"><s>Interim/
</s></span><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Long-Term
Tax Structure (interim vs permanent) (501c3, fiscal sponsor, LLC, B
Corp)-- how long does it take to apply for each one of these?</span></li></ol></div><div
id="magicdomid1011" class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number2" start="4"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Membership
Structure/ Pricing/ When Begin to Pay</span></li>
</ol></div><div id="magicdomid1012" class="ace-line"><ol
class="list-number2" start="5"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Decision
Making (once have paying members)</span></li></ol></div>
<div id="magicdomid1013" class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number2"
start="6"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Revenue
Models</span></li></ol></div><div id="magicdomid892" class="ace-line">
<span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">3.
Sudo Room option listings (begun, on wiki)</span></div><div
id="magicdomid23" class=""><br></div><div id="magicdomid24" class=""><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>New
Business</b></span></div>
<div id="magicdomid25" class=""><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">+ Focus on
concrete goals and deadlines</span></div><div id="magicdomid1335"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>====Space
and Time====</b></span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1338" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Update from
Timon about Zoning</span></div><div id="magicdomid1347"
class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1"><li>
<span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">@TODO
investigate zoning laws esp in Oakland. Learned much from oakland
city website "CBD Central Business District Zone Regulations"</span></li></ul></div><div
id="magicdomid1348" class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z"> Eddie
suggests that "playing as we go" is not the way to go. </span></li>
</ul></div><div id="magicdomid1350" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Update from
Eddan about Tax Structure</span></div><div id="magicdomid1351"
class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1">
<li><span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">@TODO
fill out wiki with all options and comparative analysis for both tax
structure and organization structure</span></li></ul></div><div
id="magicdomid1352" class="ace-line">
<ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Eddan
wants some feedback--but it would be wise to have an environment that
enables different types of innovation funding. Fixing computers,
teaching classes, etc. </span></li></ul></div><div id="magicdomid1358"
class="ace-line"><ul class="list-indent1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">The
diversity here is how you could fund publicly-minded projects. This
could be beneficial, we should consider ways of fostering this. </span></li></ul></div><div
id="magicdomid1359" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">
Eddan is not acting as a lawyer. Looking at tax structure, ways to
organize it - 501(c)3. Also have the jobs act and crowdfunding, very
new. Comparing to different structures of organizations. Wants to ask
everyone a question:</span></div><div id="magicdomid2288"
class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number1" start="1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Become a
non-profit?</span></li></ol></div>
<div id="magicdomid2289" class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number2"
start="1"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Can't do
lobbying (too much), supporting candidates, other reporting
requirements. Potential for pigeon-holing. </span></li>
</ol></div><div id="magicdomid2290" class="ace-line"><ol
class="list-number2" start="2"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Could be
advantages to being forced to foreclose, be transparent--but that can
also be a choice to be transparent. </span></li>
</ol></div><div id="magicdomid2291" class="ace-line"><ol
class="list-number1" start="2"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Keep going,
loosely bound collective, move forward without worrying about other
things?</span></li>
</ol></div><div id="magicdomid2292" class="ace-line"><ol
class="list-number1" start="3"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">Options
include all the way to a Super PAC</span></li></ol></div>
<div id="magicdomid2293" class="ace-line"><ol class="list-number1"
start="4"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">LLC - $900 /
year</span></li></ol></div><div id="magicdomid2295" class="ace-line">
<ol class="list-number1" start="5"><li><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Pop-up
lease opportunity.</b></span><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">
Oakollective + Popup Hood are great examples of this. </span></li>
</ol></div><div id="magicdomid4045" class="ace-line"><br></div><div
id="magicdomid4056" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">== Voting
==</span></div><div id="magicdomid1739" class="ace-line">
<span class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">The
group recognizes that we have critical decisions to make, and everyone
wants to move forward with making decisions. Further, the group points
out that we need an interim decision-making process and that this should
(and will) change once we have a room [the ultimate goal]. It is also
recognized that we must make a leap of faith in order to begin with
interim decision-making.</span></div><div id="magicdomid1370"
class="ace-line"><br></div><div id="magicdomid2663" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Motion:
In this interim period, non-binding decisions will be voted on at Sudo
Room meetings by those attending and interested in voting, these will
then be shared with the email list and recorded on the Wiki.</b></span></div><div
id="magicdomid3656" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">11 Vote in
Favor (2 abstain, for sociological and journalistic reasons respectively
;)</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid56" class=""><br></div><div id="magicdomid2856"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Motion:
To aim to find an initial location, a Sudo Room (rather than a
full-fledged Sudo Space), targeted for the end of July</b></span></div>
<div id="magicdomid2284" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">10
in Favor - One dissenter, Patrik's offers that Techliminal is a
sufficient platform and that it is not necessary to strive to open
another space. There are advantages and disadvantages to this position,
it is good this position is visible for thought and moving forward.
(Again 2 abstain for obvious reasons).</span></div><div
id="magicdomid893" class="ace-line"><br></div><div id="magicdomid2680"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Strawpoll
(not a vote, just ): Willing to pay on a regular interval for Sudo Room
as a hackerspace (no discussion of membership, responsibilities,
benefits, etc.)</b></span></div><div id="magicdomid3713"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">10
- One dissenter, Patrick based on the lack of an option to contribute
without financial payment. A valuable sentiment, and brings up that one
topic from the last meeting included strategies for allowing folks
without funds to contribute and participate in the space. This is on our
radar as we move forward! (2 abstain ' ' ' )</span></div><div
id="magicdomid74" class=""><br></div><div id="magicdomid3730"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z b"><b>Motion:</b></span><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">
To create an interim solution for storing our current donations by (a)
using WePay on the condition that it acts just like a bank and won't
charge us any fees! (WePay is encouraging since its used by Occupy for
its flexibility.) If this fails to qualify such conditions, then (b) the
alternative is to have Matt and Eddan sign a Doing-Business-As and sign
up at a local Credit Union for a free account to store this money. The
caveat is that this can be changed easily, we can always move money to
some other bank, or under different names or a corporation, but our
current situation is non-ideal.</span></div><div id="magicdomid4044"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z86zz68zz70zz67ztlxz73zovz76zz84zz67zbxz90z">10
- (One abstains ' ' ' ) The emphasis behind this motion is to (1) deal
with the fact that we have donations from our fundraiser in three
locations and it would be good to consolidate them (2) this makes things
more transparent for everyone and (3) it allows us to easily start
adding more income to the coffer at the apporpirate times, and (4) spend
money easily when that is appropriate.</span></div><div
id="magicdomid77" class=""><br></div><div id="magicdomid78" class=""><br></div><br>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>sudoroom mailing
list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sudoroom@lists.hackerspaces.org">sudoroom@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/sudoroom">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/sudoroom</a><br></div></div>
</blockquote>
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