Even better than a closed cycle boat (from a ground up perspective) might be doing a cut at a closed cycle RV. Not only would it be quite cheap to put together from the ground up, but it could be moved around easily for collaborative and experimental purposes ...<div>
<br></div><div>/Felix<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 1:05 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:spaceprogram-request@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">spaceprogram-request@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Fwd: Project Management, Starships, and the Failure of<br>
Modern Physics - YouTube (Matt Johnson)<br>
2. Re: Project Management, Starships, and the Failure of Modern<br>
Physics - YouTube (Matt Johnson)<br>
3. Re: Project Management, Starships, and the Failure of Modern<br>
Physics - YouTube (cole santos)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:32:01 -0700<br>
From: Matt Johnson <<a href="mailto:railmeat@gmail.com">railmeat@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Paul Szymkowiak <<a href="mailto:paulszym@gmail.com">paulszym@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Hackerspaces Space Program communication list<br>
<<a href="mailto:spaceprogram@lists.hackerspaces.org">spaceprogram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [SpaceProgram] Fwd: Project Management, Starships, and<br>
the Failure of Modern Physics - YouTube<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAPou7eDpWU%2BQhhcNUROJK6rUs-vcJgQZ-awsPHJKdy0ajkR_3w@mail.gmail.com">CAPou7eDpWU+QhhcNUROJK6rUs-vcJgQZ-awsPHJKdy0ajkR_3w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Hello Paul,<br>
<br>
I thought when I was sending the email that what I was saying was<br>
pretty obvious. Of course I did not read through the archives to learn<br>
what has already been discussed.<br>
<br>
<br>
You wrote "In terms of what a longer-term plan for space exploration<br>
might look like, it seems to me that a lot of the obvious technology<br>
needs and required advances - or at least the known problems and<br>
challenges to be overcome - are fairly easily identified and already<br>
widely discussed." I agree however I think it is worth spaceGAMBIT<br>
referencing a document defining those problems and challenges. That<br>
would help clarify a granting or challenge process. I don't know of<br>
such a document. If there is not one, it would be worth spending<br>
spaceGAMBIT money to creat it.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
-- Matt Johnson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Paul Szymkowiak <<a href="mailto:paulszym@gmail.com">paulszym@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi Matt,<br>
><br>
> Great points you've raised.<br>
><br>
> To clarify any wrong impression, the points you've raised have been part of<br>
> an active, ongoing discussion within the caretaker team. I think it's great<br>
> to see those same challenges discussed in a wider group.<br>
><br>
> Having lead some projects at hackerspaces, and participated in others, I<br>
> don't think the idea of top-down, big-plans-upfront will fly. I agree that<br>
> many large-project management techniques aren't really going to work in this<br>
> context.<br>
><br>
> I think there are a number of ways to run this program, but - at least in my<br>
> view - this will succeed if the ongoing plan for the actual research is<br>
> driven predominantly bottom up.<br>
><br>
> One idea of how that might look is that hackerspaces joining the program,<br>
> nominating a representative or two to present their interests, and have<br>
> those groups of representatives define the plan. There are challenges with<br>
> this approach, especially around managing change over time, but as I see it,<br>
> it's probably a reasonable middle ground. Trying to have lots of independent<br>
> researchers - rather than teams - coordinate a plan may be ineffective.<br>
><br>
> In terms of what a longer-term plan for space exploration might look like,<br>
> it seems to me that a lot of the obvious technology needs and required<br>
> advances - or at least the known problems and challenges to be overcome -<br>
> are fairly easily identified and already widely discussed. In fact, many<br>
> hackerspace groups are already pursuing some of those challenges. So,<br>
> although I'm advocating an inclusive plan, driven by the interests of<br>
> individual hackerspace teams, I suspect that the plan will end up with many<br>
> elements we'd have included by taking a more top-down, project-management<br>
> lead plan.<br>
><br>
> As I see it, one of the things the SpaceGAMBIT organisation can do is assist<br>
> in enabling that process, rather than driving it. In my view, that is a mix<br>
> of linking projects and people across the network, providing funds, curating<br>
> project results and content as a commons resource, and enabling skill and<br>
> knowledge sharing.<br>
> Thanks & Best Regards,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Paul<br>
><br>
> Paul Szymkowiak<br>
><br>
> On 23 September 2012 11:49, Matt Johnson <<a href="mailto:railmeat@gmail.com">railmeat@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Jerry, I met you at 100YSS, that is how I heard about your space<br>
>> GAMBIT and this email list. As I understood it the talk was about how<br>
>> to focus physics research at a large scale, such as federally funded<br>
>> research projects and large university. I see hacker spaces involved<br>
>> in a large number of small loosely coordinated, or uncoordinated<br>
>> projects. Is that wrong? Since these project will be smaller, they<br>
>> would use more mundane project management techniques.<br>
>><br>
>> I had hoped that 100YSS would present some kind of road map or broad<br>
>> plan that the various groups working on interstellar space could<br>
>> follow. I still hope they present something. It would probably be<br>
>> worthwhile asking someone at 100YSS if they plan to produce a road<br>
>> map.<br>
>><br>
>> I am not sure how best to proceed with this sort of problem. You must<br>
>> have given it some thought before you made the DARPA grant proposals.<br>
>> What did you come up with? If I were thrown into this problem with no<br>
>> preparation I would start with some kind of literature search to get a<br>
>> picture of the current situation and try to interview experienced<br>
>> researchers in the field to find out what they think the next steps<br>
>> should be. Then some kind of RFP process to see what people are<br>
>> interested in doing.<br>
>><br>
>> I am not sure how something like RFPs would work in a hacker context,<br>
>> do you know of examples of this being done? Perhaps an "X prize" style<br>
>> approach is more appropriate. In either case they would benefit from<br>
>> some kind of evangelism and marketing.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Matt Johnson<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>> > This was given in the context of the 100YSS organization.<br>
>> > There are probably a half dozen different non-profit organizations and<br>
>> > groups now pursuing space technology.<br>
>> > To some extent each of these (including our SpaceGAMBIT) does 'control<br>
>> > project goals and funds' which decides what work will be done, at least<br>
>> > on<br>
>> > their nickel.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If you have a limited amount of funds and your goal is to give it to<br>
>> > hackers<br>
>> > to further space education and research<br>
>> > how would you decide what work will be done?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > That is a quandary that I face.<br>
>> > Please help us decide.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Jerry Isdale<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
>> > USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
>> > Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
>> > <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the<br>
>> > human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
>> > civilization,<br>
>> > all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily<br>
>> > reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Matt Johnson wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Interesting talk, the sliders were pretty funky though. I am sure<br>
>> > there is a lot to be gained by using the best technics in decision<br>
>> > making and project management. That assumes that there is some<br>
>> > organziation or body that controls project goals and funds and that<br>
>> > can decided what work will be done. That does not match with my<br>
>> > understanding of what a hacker space is.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > Matt Johnson<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:isdale@gmail.com">isdale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > This was the talk at 100YSS Symposium that kicked me off on Quaternion<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Maxwell Physics.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The engineer part of me likes the rigor Buck brings to the discussion<br>
>> > ...<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The hacker part of me wants to run screaming naked thru the rainforest<br>
>> > (my<br>
>> ><br>
>> > backyard).<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95xWsxqNvI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95xWsxqNvI</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > The discussion of Heaviside-Tate flame war and impact on theoretical<br>
>> > (and<br>
>> ><br>
>> > applied) physics starts about 12min in.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The rest of discussion is pretty interesting too.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Jerry Isdale<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the<br>
>> ><br>
>> > human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
>> > civilization,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily<br>
>> ><br>
>> > reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> ><br>
>> > SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:00:28 -0700<br>
From: Matt Johnson <<a href="mailto:railmeat@gmail.com">railmeat@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Hackerspaces Space Program communication list<br>
<<a href="mailto:spaceprogram@lists.hackerspaces.org">spaceprogram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [SpaceProgram] Project Management, Starships, and the<br>
Failure of Modern Physics - YouTube<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAPou7eCz5iZUPXn8SrZTAMB0-Z6qVjRU2VAQCfZ4pyAi=<a href="mailto:6u1aQ@mail.gmail.com">6u1aQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Cole, I cannot think of much tech that could cross over from<br>
seasteading to spacesteading. The seasteaders have it easy they rely<br>
on navel architecture, as well understood and established engineering<br>
domain. Not much technical research is required.<br>
<br>
They are much more ambitious in the political, legal, social and<br>
economic realms. I am sure spacesteaders will be able to learn a lot<br>
from seasteaders in those areas.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Matt Johnson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Seasteading has almost identical needs as spacesteading in theory it easyer<br>
> to develop. Perhaps it could be a stepwise goal. A lot of tech could cross<br>
> over.<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> There was an interesting talk at 100YSS on SeaSteading ... homesteaders<br>
>> going to sea... or under it.<br>
>> <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=seasteading" target="_blank">http://lmgtfy.com/?q=seasteading</a><br>
>><br>
>> Definitely an option to investigate.<br>
>><br>
>> Jerry Isdale<br>
>> <a href="http://MauiMakers.com" target="_blank">http://MauiMakers.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/" target="_blank">http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/</a><br>
>><br>
>> On Sep 23, 2012, at 4:14 AM, <a href="mailto:ainut@hiwaay.net">ainut@hiwaay.net</a> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > It would not have to be a standalone unit. It could be one of the<br>
>> > underwater restaurants that we install an airlock in.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Or we could just build one that way. Part of it above the water or on<br>
>> > land, and part underwater. This type, however, would allow designers to be<br>
>> > sloppy since the danger factor is much less than a pure underwater,<br>
>> > standalone unit.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > David M.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Quoting cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> I think an underwater habitat would be a great project. If you can<br>
>> >> figure a<br>
>> >> way to get one to maui we could look around for some grants (NOAA,<br>
>> >> NASA).<br>
>> >> But 5k is not enough. Multi million is a bit much, but its still a<br>
>> >> 100k+<br>
>> >> project AFTER moving it. You need a big boat for support. It could be<br>
>> >> done<br>
>> >> privately as well with tourism as main capacity and space research as<br>
>> >> an ancillary use.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I know a guy in the big island had a big bubble dome. I dove it once.<br>
>> >> Had<br>
>> >> to bring an extra tank to fill it up.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The state of Hawaii would allow us to lease underwater space. It has<br>
>> >> been<br>
>> >> done for the ocean aquaculture guys.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> This is a year 3-5 project idea AFTER we get a sustainable income<br>
>> >> stream,<br>
>> >> through grants, donations, and other fundraising.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>><br>
>> >> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >>> There is a reason the abandoned or soon to be abandoned underwater<br>
>> >>> habitats are that way.<br>
>> >>> Mostly they have outlived their usable lifetimes.<br>
>> >>> One of my neighbors used to work on the NOAA Aquarius habitat like<br>
>> >>> 10-15yrs ago.<br>
>> >>> he said it was old and dangerous back then.<br>
>> >>> A real underwater habitat would be a multi-million dollar endeavor,<br>
>> >>> and so<br>
>> >>> beyond the scope of what we could do.<br>
>> >>> An inflatable underwater garden/greenhouse? maybe that would be<br>
>> >>> doable.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Propulsion and guidance for atmospheric rockets is covered by ITAR I<br>
>> >>> think.<br>
>> >>> Interplanetary is probably not. Interstellar is probably too far out<br>
>> >>> for<br>
>> >>> them to worry about (aside from nuclear which is restricted for other<br>
>> >>> reasons)<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The video that started this thread looked back at the history of<br>
>> >>> physics<br>
>> >>> and identified a point where something happened.<br>
>> >>> Maxwell's unification of Electro-Magnetic-Light started a highly<br>
>> >>> productive time in physics and engineering.<br>
>> >>> And yet it was met with such vehement antagonism that a major<br>
>> >>> simplification/approximation was required for its acceptance.<br>
>> >>> What if there is a whole lot more lying in wait beyond that<br>
>> >>> approximation?<br>
>> >>> Buck seemed to think it was a good fertile ground for research.<br>
>> >>> I think there are too few people who understand quaternions and the<br>
>> >>> basics<br>
>> >>> of EM theory expressed that way.<br>
>> >>> I've started digging into it slowly (reading<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://www.das.uchile.cl/~rmendez/Documents/Roger_Penrose_Road_to_reality.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.das.uchile.cl/~rmendez/Documents/Roger_Penrose_Road_to_reality.pdf</a><br>
>> >>> )<br>
>> >>> over my head in first pages. I'd love a hacker based intro to the<br>
>> >>> concepts.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
>> >>> <a href="http://MauiMakers.com" target="_blank">http://MauiMakers.com</a><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/" target="_blank">http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Alex Cureton-Griffiths wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I like this idea! Any links for location/cost/condition/etc?<br>
>> >>> Renovating a<br>
>> >>> research station to make it usable would be a useful experience in<br>
>> >>> itself.<br>
>> >>> I think some of the Maui Makers crew have scuba experience as well, so<br>
>> >>> they'd be a good match for this project<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Propulsion is covered under ITAR I think, so doing anything hands-on<br>
>> >>> (or<br>
>> >>> even hands-off) with that is a no-go since we're an international<br>
>> >>> organization. I love the idea of livability testing.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On 23 Sep, 2012, at 12:07 PM, <a href="mailto:ainut@hiwaay.net">ainut@hiwaay.net</a> wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Methinks one of the best items we could do with small sums of money is<br>
>> >>> adopt one of abandoned underwater "livability" research stations.<br>
>> >>> With one<br>
>> >>> of those, we could really test ideas from the group to see if it would<br>
>> >>> work<br>
>> >>> in space. How long term the tests are would depend upon each<br>
>> >>> individual<br>
>> >>> goal, of course, but these 'habitats' are very cheap (maybe free) and<br>
>> >>> are<br>
>> >>> test beds that will actually bite you if your ideas are not workable.<br>
>> >>> Small scale, of course.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> We need to think about the spaceship propulsion certainly, but<br>
>> >>> livability<br>
>> >>> is just as high a concern; maybe higher if people are going on it!<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> David M.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Quoting Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>>:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Aloha Matt<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Buck's talk was on the large scale - partially to say to the group at<br>
>> >>> large - what needs to be done.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> If you are going to look at building an interstellar ship one big<br>
>> >>> question<br>
>> >>> is the physics of propulsion<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> that is what Buck focused on.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The 100YSS Org still seems pretty disOrg, IMHO. They have yet to<br>
>> >>> create a<br>
>> >>> separate entity to run things, operating under Mae's Mother's<br>
>> >>> non-profit<br>
>> >>> foundation for now. I missed the wrapup session but I havent heard of<br>
>> >>> grand vision yet. Only seen one summary of event so far too.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> As for how a Hackerspace or alliance of spaces could do things...<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> It could be total anarchy, which would be mostly what hackers would<br>
>> >>> prefer<br>
>> >>> i think,<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> but our program has somewhat lower aspirations, at least in the short<br>
>> >>> term.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> One goal (akin to the 100YSS.org) is securing funding/donations to<br>
>> >>> allow<br>
>> >>> us to continue beyond the initial seed from DARPA.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Where we diverge immediately, is the hacker goal of MAKE SOMETHING.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> actually producing something will also help secure funding, IMHO<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The proposal team has several ideas for projects.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Cole has actually started on his (well he has 1000 ideas/min and 100<br>
>> >>> projects started/wk)<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Some other ideas have been talked about on this list or by private<br>
>> >>> email.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> A Challenge is one option, but I dont think we can do an open ended<br>
>> >>> one<br>
>> >>> like X-Prize (like "create a FTL drive") as that might not be claimed<br>
>> >>> by<br>
>> >>> end of program. One challenge I have been talking up is an educational<br>
>> >>> one<br>
>> >>> -- create open curriculum space science and/or hacker-tech course with<br>
>> >>> all<br>
>> >>> material and replicate at another space purely using online comms.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> We will most likely have an official RFP out in a month or so.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Start thinking of ideas - short run, low budget (3-6mo, <$5000USD).<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> General area - humanity's long term survival and expansion into space<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of<br>
>> >>> the<br>
>> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
>> >>> civilization,<br>
>> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily<br>
>> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Matt Johnson wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Hi Jerry, I met you at 100YSS, that is how I heard about your space<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> GAMBIT and this email list. As I understood it the talk was about how<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> to focus physics research at a large scale, such as federally funded<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> research projects and large university. I see hacker spaces involved<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> in a large number of small loosely coordinated, or uncoordinated<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> projects. Is that wrong? Since these project will be smaller, they<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> would use more mundane project management techniques.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I had hoped that 100YSS would present some kind of road map or broad<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> plan that the various groups working on interstellar space could<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> follow. I still hope they present something. It would probably be<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> worthwhile asking someone at 100YSS if they plan to produce a road<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> map.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I am not sure how best to proceed with this sort of problem. You must<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> have given it some thought before you made the DARPA grant proposals.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> What did you come up with? If I were thrown into this problem with no<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> preparation I would start with some kind of literature search to get a<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> picture of the current situation and try to interview experienced<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> researchers in the field to find out what they think the next steps<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> should be. Then some kind of RFP process to see what people are<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> interested in doing.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I am not sure how something like RFPs would work in a hacker context,<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> do you know of examples of this being done? Perhaps an "X prize" style<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> approach is more appropriate. In either case they would benefit from<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> some kind of evangelism and marketing.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> --<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Matt Johnson<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>><br>
>> >>> wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> This was given in the context of the 100YSS organization.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> There are probably a half dozen different non-profit organizations and<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> groups now pursuing space technology.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> To some extent each of these (including our SpaceGAMBIT) does 'control<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> project goals and funds' which decides what work will be done, at<br>
>> >>> least on<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> their nickel.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> If you have a limited amount of funds and your goal is to give it to<br>
>> >>> hackers<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> to further space education and research<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> how would you decide what work will be done?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> That is a quandary that I face.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Please help us decide.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of<br>
>> >>> the<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
>> >>> civilization,<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Matt Johnson wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Interesting talk, the sliders were pretty funky though. I am sure<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> there is a lot to be gained by using the best technics in decision<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> making and project management. That assumes that there is some<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> organziation or body that controls project goals and funds and that<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> can decided what work will be done. That does not match with my<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> understanding of what a hacker space is.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> --<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Matt Johnson<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:isdale@gmail.com">isdale@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> This was the talk at 100YSS Symposium that kicked me off on Quaternion<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Maxwell Physics.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The engineer part of me likes the rigor Buck brings to the discussion<br>
>> >>> ...<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The hacker part of me wants to run screaming naked thru the rainforest<br>
>> >>> (my<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> backyard).<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95xWsxqNvI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95xWsxqNvI</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The discussion of Heaviside-Tate flame war and impact on theoretical<br>
>> >>> (and<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> applied) physics starts about 12min in.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The rest of discussion is pretty interesting too.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of<br>
>> >>> the<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
>> >>> civilization,<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
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><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:05:40 -1000<br>
From: cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:railmeat@gmail.com">railmeat@gmail.com</a>, Hackerspaces Space Program communication list<br>
<<a href="mailto:spaceprogram@lists.hackerspaces.org">spaceprogram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [SpaceProgram] Project Management, Starships, and the<br>
Failure of Modern Physics - YouTube<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CABSLL0qCSXXwZBNxq=Rr4m+9qJF7SE+4fe5n2f=e=<a href="mailto:u94ND_vvg@mail.gmail.com">u94ND_vvg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Sea-steading crossover would be in certain systems. Sustainable habitat<br>
design with a small footprint, waste management, food production, and small<br>
scale replication of industrial processes. If you look at their website<br>
their goal is to be independent of land based infrastructure. As an avid<br>
diver, I can tell you that the underwater environment is about as close to<br>
weightlessness as you can get. The issues of decompression, bends, and<br>
other pressure sicknesses apply in space as much as underwater. Thier<br>
habitats must be water proof, and if its water proof its air proof. Think<br>
about a sail boat. How long can you last without going ashore for fuel and<br>
water, dumping waste(assuming you dont use the ocean as a dumping ground,<br>
hence the sustainble part)? One stepwise goal could be to design a close<br>
cycle boat for 1 man and send him around for a while. Initial projects<br>
could be aspects of that entire system. Toilets, waste processing, micro<br>
showers, food production systems, air handling systems, ect. You would need<br>
to process waste, capture water, control atmosphere, do hydroponics, ect in<br>
space and seasteaders would need similar tech. This would allow us to test<br>
habitat level 1 tech readiness technology without the cost of booting it to<br>
space. First test on ground, then at sea, then in space. NASA does the same<br>
thing that's what Aquarius was for. Navel engineering is not even close to<br>
the state where it can be considered a closed ecological system. They dump<br>
their waste at sea, they burn insane amounts of fuel to make water, cook<br>
food, ect. They desalinate water instead of processing their waste water,<br>
ect.<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Matt Johnson <<a href="mailto:railmeat@gmail.com">railmeat@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Cole, I cannot think of much tech that could cross over from<br>
> seasteading to spacesteading. The seasteaders have it easy they rely<br>
> on navel architecture, as well understood and established engineering<br>
> domain. Not much technical research is required.<br>
><br>
> They are much more ambitious in the political, legal, social and<br>
> economic realms. I am sure spacesteaders will be able to learn a lot<br>
> from seasteaders in those areas.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Matt Johnson<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > Seasteading has almost identical needs as spacesteading in theory it<br>
> easyer<br>
> > to develop. Perhaps it could be a stepwise goal. A lot of tech could<br>
> cross<br>
> > over.<br>
> ><br>
> > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> There was an interesting talk at 100YSS on SeaSteading ... homesteaders<br>
> >> going to sea... or under it.<br>
> >> <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=seasteading" target="_blank">http://lmgtfy.com/?q=seasteading</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> Definitely an option to investigate.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Jerry Isdale<br>
> >> <a href="http://MauiMakers.com" target="_blank">http://MauiMakers.com</a><br>
> >> <a href="http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/" target="_blank">http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> On Sep 23, 2012, at 4:14 AM, <a href="mailto:ainut@hiwaay.net">ainut@hiwaay.net</a> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> > It would not have to be a standalone unit. It could be one of the<br>
> >> > underwater restaurants that we install an airlock in.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Or we could just build one that way. Part of it above the water or on<br>
> >> > land, and part underwater. This type, however, would allow designers<br>
> to be<br>
> >> > sloppy since the danger factor is much less than a pure underwater,<br>
> >> > standalone unit.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > David M.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Quoting cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> >> I think an underwater habitat would be a great project. If you can<br>
> >> >> figure a<br>
> >> >> way to get one to maui we could look around for some grants (NOAA,<br>
> >> >> NASA).<br>
> >> >> But 5k is not enough. Multi million is a bit much, but its still a<br>
> >> >> 100k+<br>
> >> >> project AFTER moving it. You need a big boat for support. It could be<br>
> >> >> done<br>
> >> >> privately as well with tourism as main capacity and space research as<br>
> >> >> an ancillary use.<br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >> I know a guy in the big island had a big bubble dome. I dove it once.<br>
> >> >> Had<br>
> >> >> to bring an extra tank to fill it up.<br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >> The state of Hawaii would allow us to lease underwater space. It has<br>
> >> >> been<br>
> >> >> done for the ocean aquaculture guys.<br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >> This is a year 3-5 project idea AFTER we get a sustainable income<br>
> >> >> stream,<br>
> >> >> through grants, donations, and other fundraising.<br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>><br>
> >> >> wrote:<br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >>> There is a reason the abandoned or soon to be abandoned underwater<br>
> >> >>> habitats are that way.<br>
> >> >>> Mostly they have outlived their usable lifetimes.<br>
> >> >>> One of my neighbors used to work on the NOAA Aquarius habitat like<br>
> >> >>> 10-15yrs ago.<br>
> >> >>> he said it was old and dangerous back then.<br>
> >> >>> A real underwater habitat would be a multi-million dollar endeavor,<br>
> >> >>> and so<br>
> >> >>> beyond the scope of what we could do.<br>
> >> >>> An inflatable underwater garden/greenhouse? maybe that would be<br>
> >> >>> doable.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Propulsion and guidance for atmospheric rockets is covered by ITAR I<br>
> >> >>> think.<br>
> >> >>> Interplanetary is probably not. Interstellar is probably too far<br>
> out<br>
> >> >>> for<br>
> >> >>> them to worry about (aside from nuclear which is restricted for<br>
> other<br>
> >> >>> reasons)<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> The video that started this thread looked back at the history of<br>
> >> >>> physics<br>
> >> >>> and identified a point where something happened.<br>
> >> >>> Maxwell's unification of Electro-Magnetic-Light started a highly<br>
> >> >>> productive time in physics and engineering.<br>
> >> >>> And yet it was met with such vehement antagonism that a major<br>
> >> >>> simplification/approximation was required for its acceptance.<br>
> >> >>> What if there is a whole lot more lying in wait beyond that<br>
> >> >>> approximation?<br>
> >> >>> Buck seemed to think it was a good fertile ground for research.<br>
> >> >>> I think there are too few people who understand quaternions and the<br>
> >> >>> basics<br>
> >> >>> of EM theory expressed that way.<br>
> >> >>> I've started digging into it slowly (reading<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> <a href="http://www.das.uchile.cl/~rmendez/Documents/Roger_Penrose_Road_to_reality.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.das.uchile.cl/~rmendez/Documents/Roger_Penrose_Road_to_reality.pdf</a><br>
> >> >>> )<br>
> >> >>> over my head in first pages. I'd love a hacker based intro to the<br>
> >> >>> concepts.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://MauiMakers.com" target="_blank">http://MauiMakers.com</a><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/" target="_blank">http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Alex Cureton-Griffiths wrote:<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> I like this idea! Any links for location/cost/condition/etc?<br>
> >> >>> Renovating a<br>
> >> >>> research station to make it usable would be a useful experience in<br>
> >> >>> itself.<br>
> >> >>> I think some of the Maui Makers crew have scuba experience as well,<br>
> so<br>
> >> >>> they'd be a good match for this project<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Propulsion is covered under ITAR I think, so doing anything hands-on<br>
> >> >>> (or<br>
> >> >>> even hands-off) with that is a no-go since we're an international<br>
> >> >>> organization. I love the idea of livability testing.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> On 23 Sep, 2012, at 12:07 PM, <a href="mailto:ainut@hiwaay.net">ainut@hiwaay.net</a> wrote:<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Methinks one of the best items we could do with small sums of money<br>
> is<br>
> >> >>> adopt one of abandoned underwater "livability" research stations.<br>
> >> >>> With one<br>
> >> >>> of those, we could really test ideas from the group to see if it<br>
> would<br>
> >> >>> work<br>
> >> >>> in space. How long term the tests are would depend upon each<br>
> >> >>> individual<br>
> >> >>> goal, of course, but these 'habitats' are very cheap (maybe free)<br>
> and<br>
> >> >>> are<br>
> >> >>> test beds that will actually bite you if your ideas are not<br>
> workable.<br>
> >> >>> Small scale, of course.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> We need to think about the spaceship propulsion certainly, but<br>
> >> >>> livability<br>
> >> >>> is just as high a concern; maybe higher if people are going on it!<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> David M.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Quoting Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>>:<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Aloha Matt<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Buck's talk was on the large scale - partially to say to the group<br>
> at<br>
> >> >>> large - what needs to be done.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> If you are going to look at building an interstellar ship one big<br>
> >> >>> question<br>
> >> >>> is the physics of propulsion<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> that is what Buck focused on.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> The 100YSS Org still seems pretty disOrg, IMHO. They have yet to<br>
> >> >>> create a<br>
> >> >>> separate entity to run things, operating under Mae's Mother's<br>
> >> >>> non-profit<br>
> >> >>> foundation for now. I missed the wrapup session but I havent heard<br>
> of<br>
> >> >>> grand vision yet. Only seen one summary of event so far too.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> As for how a Hackerspace or alliance of spaces could do things...<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> It could be total anarchy, which would be mostly what hackers would<br>
> >> >>> prefer<br>
> >> >>> i think,<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> but our program has somewhat lower aspirations, at least in the<br>
> short<br>
> >> >>> term.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> One goal (akin to the 100YSS.org) is securing funding/donations to<br>
> >> >>> allow<br>
> >> >>> us to continue beyond the initial seed from DARPA.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Where we diverge immediately, is the hacker goal of MAKE SOMETHING.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> actually producing something will also help secure funding, IMHO<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> The proposal team has several ideas for projects.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Cole has actually started on his (well he has 1000 ideas/min and 100<br>
> >> >>> projects started/wk)<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Some other ideas have been talked about on this list or by private<br>
> >> >>> email.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> A Challenge is one option, but I dont think we can do an open ended<br>
> >> >>> one<br>
> >> >>> like X-Prize (like "create a FTL drive") as that might not be<br>
> claimed<br>
> >> >>> by<br>
> >> >>> end of program. One challenge I have been talking up is an<br>
> educational<br>
> >> >>> one<br>
> >> >>> -- create open curriculum space science and/or hacker-tech course<br>
> with<br>
> >> >>> all<br>
> >> >>> material and replicate at another space purely using online comms.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> We will most likely have an official RFP out in a month or so.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Start thinking of ideas - short run, low budget (3-6mo, <$5000USD).<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> General area - humanity's long term survival and expansion into<br>
> space<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of<br>
> >> >>> the<br>
> >> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
> >> >>> civilization,<br>
> >> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not<br>
> necessarily<br>
> >> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Matt Johnson wrote:<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Hi Jerry, I met you at 100YSS, that is how I heard about your space<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> GAMBIT and this email list. As I understood it the talk was about<br>
> how<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> to focus physics research at a large scale, such as federally funded<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> research projects and large university. I see hacker spaces involved<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> in a large number of small loosely coordinated, or uncoordinated<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> projects. Is that wrong? Since these project will be smaller, they<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> would use more mundane project management techniques.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> I had hoped that 100YSS would present some kind of road map or broad<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> plan that the various groups working on interstellar space could<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> follow. I still hope they present something. It would probably be<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> worthwhile asking someone at 100YSS if they plan to produce a road<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> map.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> I am not sure how best to proceed with this sort of problem. You<br>
> must<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> have given it some thought before you made the DARPA grant<br>
> proposals.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> What did you come up with? If I were thrown into this problem with<br>
> no<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> preparation I would start with some kind of literature search to<br>
> get a<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> picture of the current situation and try to interview experienced<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> researchers in the field to find out what they think the next steps<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> should be. Then some kind of RFP process to see what people are<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> interested in doing.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> I am not sure how something like RFPs would work in a hacker<br>
> context,<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> do you know of examples of this being done? Perhaps an "X prize"<br>
> style<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> approach is more appropriate. In either case they would benefit from<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> some kind of evangelism and marketing.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> --<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Matt Johnson<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a><br>
> ><br>
> >> >>> wrote:<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> This was given in the context of the 100YSS organization.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> There are probably a half dozen different non-profit organizations<br>
> and<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> groups now pursuing space technology.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> To some extent each of these (including our SpaceGAMBIT) does<br>
> 'control<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> project goals and funds' which decides what work will be done, at<br>
> >> >>> least on<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> their nickel.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> If you have a limited amount of funds and your goal is to give it to<br>
> >> >>> hackers<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> to further space education and research<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> how would you decide what work will be done?<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> That is a quandary that I face.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Please help us decide.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of<br>
> >> >>> the<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
> >> >>> civilization,<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not<br>
> necessarily<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Matt Johnson wrote:<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Interesting talk, the sliders were pretty funky though. I am sure<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> there is a lot to be gained by using the best technics in decision<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> making and project management. That assumes that there is some<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> organziation or body that controls project goals and funds and that<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> can decided what work will be done. That does not match with my<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> understanding of what a hacker space is.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> --<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Matt Johnson<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:isdale@gmail.com">isdale@gmail.com</a>><br>
> >> >>> wrote:<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> This was the talk at 100YSS Symposium that kicked me off on<br>
> Quaternion<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Maxwell Physics.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> The engineer part of me likes the rigor Buck brings to the<br>
> discussion<br>
> >> >>> ...<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> The hacker part of me wants to run screaming naked thru the<br>
> rainforest<br>
> >> >>> (my<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> backyard).<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95xWsxqNvI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95xWsxqNvI</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> The discussion of Heaviside-Tate flame war and impact on theoretical<br>
> >> >>> (and<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> applied) physics starts about 12min in.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> The rest of discussion is pretty interesting too.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Jerry Isdale<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:isdale@spacegambit.org">isdale@spacegambit.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://SpaceGAMBIT.org" target="_blank">http://SpaceGAMBIT.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of<br>
> >> >>> the<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial<br>
> >> >>> civilization,<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not<br>
> necessarily<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> >>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> >> >>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> >> >>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> >><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > _______________________________________________<br>
> >> > SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> >> > <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> >> > <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> >> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
> ><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>