I can only argue with this single sentence: "All photosynthetic plants use the same spectrum its a function of chlorophyll chemistry." As far as I remember, accessory pigments might differ between certain plant or algae types, and might allow harvesting additional wavelengths. <br>
<br>But if this is really mostly untested as you say, then it should provide some easy results even for DIY-ers by simply checking algae growth under different light sources. <br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 September 2012 21:18, cole santos <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com" target="_blank">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Lumigrow lights look good, at 5 watts per led that's great. However their lights are insanely expensive compared to china lights that work just fine. Plants and algae have the same issue with penetration of the light into the media whether its a leaf or a algae reactor. The main advantage if led is not energy consumption, its heat and bulb life. People that are using leds are using the same wattage they used with ballasted lighting and getting similar results. The difference is that Leds can be placed inches above canopy instead of feet and they last 10 years instead of 1 or 2.<div>
<br></div><div>All photosynthetic plants use the same spectrum its a function of chlorophyll chemistry. Blue makes plants grow vegetatively and and red causes them to mature and flower, for algae blue increases the number of cells and red increases the size of each cell. Altering the wavelengths during grow can change growth patterns and allow control of the breeding cycle. For algae the effects of wavelength are relatively unstudied except for some undergrad stuff I saw on blue and red lighting and cell size and number.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Synthetic biology looks promising but atm out of reach for amateur biohackers. Radiological bio-hacking is possible if you can get your hands on cobalt 60.....<div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Máté Ravasz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ravaszmeister@gmail.com" target="_blank">ravaszmeister@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think we should discriminate between growing algae and growing plants. You need different wavelengths and outputs for different organisms. So although LEDs can be a great choice IMHO for algae, it might not be the best solution for plants. This company for instance sells LEDs as algae growth boosters: <a href="http://www.lumigrow.com/products/es-330-led-grow-light/" target="_blank">http://www.lumigrow.com/products/es-330-led-grow-light/</a> <br>
<br>And yes, adding flavours and vitamins would be my goal too when engineering algae.<div><div><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 September 2012 03:54, cole santos <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com" target="_blank">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Cheap LEDs cannot penetrate the leaf and therefore do no initialize photosynthesis (ideal >1-3 watts per led). All decent led grow lights use at least 3 spectrum simultaneously some are up to 7 now. Why did you want to expose different spectrum at different times? Its cheaper to buy them built than individual LEDs, due to volume purchasing. Alibaba has a huge number of vendors, use reviews to discriminate. LEDs are subject to moores law type paradigm so if you need them cheaper best thing to do is wait. As soon as they are more common in home lights instead of cfl then you know its not going to get much cheaper than that.<div>
<div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Matt Joyce <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matt@nycresistor.com" target="_blank">matt@nycresistor.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
There are many different leds producing many wonderful wavelengths of<br>
luminescence. I think the goal was to use multiple arrays of<br>
different LEDs and rotate them around the plant exposing them to<br>
multiple sets of light at different wavelengths over time. Not sure<br>
why that specifically was wanted. I just assumed it was a cost thing.<br>
Cheap LEDs are cheap. Figure out a way to use cheap leds to do the<br>
job of expensive LEDs at scale... etc.<br>
<br>
I could have been completely mad in thinking that.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
-Matt<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:12 PM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com" target="_blank">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Would be nice to gmo chlorella to produce flavanoids that make it taste<br>
> better and add genes for more nutrient production.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:07 PM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com" target="_blank">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Why use a rotating array? Your plants will quickly outgrow such a small<br>
>> area. Make sure to use at least 3w leds or you wont get enough canopy<br>
>> penetration. Also you need UV for vitamin d production which cannot be<br>
>> produced by leds...for now. Check out plasma lighting, more efficient that<br>
>> LED. For hydroponics I am working on integrating organic nutrient sources<br>
>> such as fish effluent, biogas effluent, and human waste products. For space<br>
>> applications we need aeroponics to reduce total required water volume. To do<br>
>> aeroponics with organic nutrient sources you need an atomizer that doesn't<br>
>> clog. Looking into centrifugal atomizers atm. But in reality food production<br>
>> is a luxury when you can eat chlorella exclusively. Chlorella is easy to<br>
>> grow and is the most efficient method of co2 removal and o2 production by<br>
>> volume of area required. Hence my algae reactor project.<br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Matt Joyce <<a href="mailto:matt@nycresistor.com" target="_blank">matt@nycresistor.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Some folks at NYC Resistor were working on a growing apparatus using a<br>
>>> rotating array of leds operating at different wavelengths.<br>
>>><br>
>>> pic of it... behind and to the left ( looking at me ) of my glorious<br>
>>> visage.<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/openfly/7558683614/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/openfly/7558683614/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> I'd love to see something like a git project setup for space based<br>
>>> growing testing kits.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Throw in some STL / code / eagle etc for some citizen science style<br>
>>> testing.... aka repeatable experimentation. And we have some real<br>
>>> live testing of procedures for open source scientific research into<br>
>>> how to grow stuff in hazardous areas safely.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I think that would be a great easy enough project to get into. And it<br>
>>> would probably iron out some of the kinks in getting a bunch of people<br>
>>> to be able to contribute to a much larger goal.<br>
>>><br>
>>> -Matt<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:25 PM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com" target="_blank">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> > I have nothing running ATM but I did a lot of monoculture algae work<br>
>>> > when I<br>
>>> > was in aquaculture program at UH<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > <a href="http://contrails.iit.edu/DigitalCollection/1962/AMRLTDR62-116article03.pdf" target="_blank">http://contrails.iit.edu/DigitalCollection/1962/AMRLTDR62-116article03.pdf</a><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > This is where I got my ideas.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > My test reactor is going to be 18" x 24" x .2"<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Man sized reactor will be 24" x 48" x .2-.09 with ~20 of them in<br>
>>> > parallel.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Algae will be extracted via this device.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > <a href="http://www.parc.com/services/focus-area/clean-water/" target="_blank">http://www.parc.com/services/focus-area/clean-water/</a><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > and o2 / co2 / vox will be monitored by sensors on arduino control.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Short term plan is to replicate the boeing experiment and adapt for<br>
>>> > longer<br>
>>> > term production<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Longer term, utilizing human wastewater as a nutrient supply and<br>
>>> > electricity<br>
>>> > source with waterwater fuel cells.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Each project is part of a larger plan for a compact biological closed<br>
>>> > cycle<br>
>>> > habitat.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Máté Ravasz <<a href="mailto:ravaszmeister@gmail.com" target="_blank">ravaszmeister@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> > wrote:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Hi,<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> I've just started to build up my own algae cultures at home last<br>
>>> >> month.<br>
>>> >> Seeing your post on how far you've progressed already in this, I<br>
>>> >> immediately<br>
>>> >> became jealous. Would you by any chance have any publicly available<br>
>>> >> data on<br>
>>> >> how your setup runs? I am building a sunlight powered reactor at the<br>
>>> >> moment,<br>
>>> >> but I would be eager to read up on more advanced methods if possible.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Thanks for any info,<br>
>>> >> Mat<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On 4 September 2012 22:48, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com" target="_blank">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>> For big area lighting plasma is more efficient than leds.<br>
>>> >>> <a href="http://www.plasma-i.com/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.plasma-i.com/index.html</a><br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:46 AM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com" target="_blank">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> >>> wrote:<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>> LED's are more expensive than florescents...and that is after order<br>
>>> >>>> of<br>
>>> >>>> magnitude reductions in cost over the last few years. I found some<br>
>>> >>>> vendors<br>
>>> >>>> in china for LED lights. Florescent technology requires bulb changes<br>
>>> >>>> every 6<br>
>>> >>>> months to a year, this makes it unworkable for space, but good for<br>
>>> >>>> earth<br>
>>> >>>> testing. LED research on optimal spectrum for algae growth is an<br>
>>> >>>> open<br>
>>> >>>> research field. Another problem is the design for my algae reactors<br>
>>> >>>> needs<br>
>>> >>>> lights that are 360, but leds are about 130 deg. a bi directional<br>
>>> >>>> light<br>
>>> >>>> would cost a lot more due to custom nature of such a light, another<br>
>>> >>>> option<br>
>>> >>>> is to just stack 2 lights back to back... but now you've doubled you<br>
>>> >>>> costs<br>
>>> >>>> and lighting is more that 50% of the total cost.<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Jerry Isdale <<a href="mailto:isdale@gmail.com" target="_blank">isdale@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> >>>> wrote:<br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>> Growing in space requires light. Space stations may be able to<br>
>>> >>>>> orient<br>
>>> >>>>> themselves for full time growing but Colonies on moons, etc will<br>
>>> >>>>> need some<br>
>>> >>>>> power source for when their rotation takes them into night (moon<br>
>>> >>>>> night = 2<br>
>>> >>>>> weeks).<br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>> This article talks about using LEDs powered from a small nuclear<br>
>>> >>>>> power<br>
>>> >>>>> source, similar to that powering the Curiosity Rover.<br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>> <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2012/08/31/space-farmers-leds-as-key-to-nasas-permanent-lunar-life-support/" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2012/08/31/space-farmers-leds-as-key-to-nasas-permanent-lunar-life-support/</a><br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>> Jerry Isdale<br>
>>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:isdale@gmail.com" target="_blank">isdale@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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