<div class="im" style><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Some ideas on early asteroid targets and how to go beyond on the quick and dirty.</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">
Scientific American - The Future of Deep-Space Exploration</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/report.cfm?id=mars-manned-exploration">http://www.scientificamerican.com/report.cfm?id=mars-manned-exploration</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></div><div><font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif">Scientific American - This Way to Mars: How Technologies Borrowed from Robotic Missions Could Deliver Astronauts to Deep Space</font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=this-way-to-mars&print=true">http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=this-way-to-mars&print=true</a>
</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">New Scientist - Hundreds of tiny moons may be orbiting Earth</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328464.600-hundreds-of-tiny-moons-may-be-orbiting-earth.html" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328464.600-hundreds-of-tiny-moons-may-be-orbiting-earth.html</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">And yep, I've also read Kurzweil's books.</div><br clear="all" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Warmest regards,</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Huei Ming</span>
</div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Alex <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alexcg@gmail.com">alexcg@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I'm really digging your sequence of events. I'm an advocate for including habitats in our goals since its something that people can relate to, and means we can thus get a larger proportion of mankind involved. That's vital for a project like this.<br>
<br>
Your list also makes it pretty straightforward to put in place an overarching goal for the vision (say, a habitat around another star?) and milestones along the way, from which we can better develop the tech tree needed.<br>
<div class="im HOEnZb"><br>
On 8 Jan 2012, at 06:11 AM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">> Asteroids or bust. Here is a sequence of events that makes sense to me.<br>
><br>
> Pre-1 Lift all the stuff you need to LEO for cheap. (thats the hard part atm)<br>
> 1. L points are first for staging, materials refining, construction,<br>
> etc. Its like the hubs of operations. I have a book by Gerard K. Oneil<br>
> called the high frontier. We need one of his giant habitats in one of<br>
> these locations eventually.<br>
> 2. Next is nickel nea asteroids for platinum and other Pt group<br>
> metals. During this stage a platinum based corp like debeers would be<br>
> possible and the first trillionaires are made. Leftover iron slag<br>
> would be used later for in-space construction. This is the space "gold<br>
> rush period"<br>
> 3. Carbonaceous asteroids NEAs are next for volatiles (you could<br>
> switch this with metal ones if you dont have nuclear by then.)<br>
> 4. Then main asteroid belt and a mars tunnel habitat.<br>
> 5. Then Jupiter's atmosphere and Trojans.<br>
> 6. Then interstellar with uploaded consciousness.<br>
><br>
> Has anyone here read Ray Kurzweil?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Huei Ming Tan <<a href="mailto:tanhueiming@gmail.com">tanhueiming@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Jerry,<br>
>><br>
>> " A lunar lander/colony may not be the best goal. I forgot the source but I<br>
>> recall arguments that a permanent space station is a better first step.<br>
>> Something more than the current station that doesnt need constant altitude<br>
>> boosts (L point located?)"<br>
>> I've came across the same argument before too. Essentially why bother<br>
>> climbing down the gravity well to an airless and barren piece of rock. And<br>
>> it seems to me that the space exploration community is largely in favor of<br>
>> going straight to the asteroids first.<br>
>><br>
>> Artus: Cole has a point. A rocket needs to carry its own fuel to above<br>
>> 50,000 feet which is the stage where rocket engines are least efficient, are<br>
>> dependent upon favorable weather at the launchpad and not reusable. The mass<br>
>> savings can be considerable and you can compare the Pegasus rocket and the<br>
>> Falcon I for a rough idea in the difference between the launch masses for<br>
>> bringing the same payload to LEO. The only big minus point in not using<br>
>> rockets all the way would be cost (at least till air launched systems<br>
>> mature).<br>
>><br>
>> Warmest regards,<br>
>> Huei Ming<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Alex Cureton-Griffiths <<a href="mailto:alexcg@gmail.com">alexcg@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm a fan of the one man closed habitat idea - once we achieve that<br>
>>> it's something we could scale to larger habitats, plus it's something<br>
>>> that the average person (i.e. non-hacker) can relate to and thus more<br>
>>> likely to find funds via kickstarter, etc<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:08 PM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> JP Aerospace is a perfect example of hackerspace possible projects.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I have some ideas for near term projects that can generate cashflow<br>
>>>> with productization,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 1. Magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) generator for extracting power from<br>
>>>> rocket exhaust. (help out JP, not much cash here though)<br>
>>>> 2. One man closed habitat - Pressurized co2 enriched algae tanks to<br>
>>>> process co2 and provide food. Biogas to process waste and create<br>
>>>> rocket fuel. Also methane for power using solid oxide fuel cells<br>
>>>> 3. Using hydrogen sulfide from biogas to leach ore. (used for asteroid<br>
>>>> mining with human waste by products)<br>
>>>> 4. Electrostatic confinement fusion (see project promethius)<br>
>>>> 5. Mini chloralkali electrolysis as well as mini haber-bosch for<br>
>>>> in-situ chemical synthesis<br>
>>>> 6. Aeroponic Aquaponics using biogas effluent as a nutrient source.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Long term projects should center around mining asteroids for platinum<br>
>>>> everything else is just science and misplaced dreams. Going down a<br>
>>>> gravity well for no apparent reason besides exploration seems silly to<br>
>>>> me.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Atrus <<a href="mailto:atrus6@gmail.com">atrus6@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> Except, there really isn't that much difference in gravity from the<br>
>>>>> surface<br>
>>>>> of the earth, 10km or in orbit.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> g on the<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> surface: <a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%29%5E2%2C+g%5D" target="_blank">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%29%5E2%2C+g%5D</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> g 10km<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> up: <a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B10000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D" target="_blank">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B10000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> ISS orbit (410 km up)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> : <a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B410000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D" target="_blank">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B410000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> This is why launching rockets on a platform will only make the actual<br>
>>>>> launch<br>
>>>>> more difficult. You still have to reach escape velocity to obtain<br>
>>>>> orbit, the<br>
>>>>> only thing you would be doing by launching a rocket at a higher<br>
>>>>> altitude<br>
>>>>> would be the face that you would have to hit that velocity in a shorter<br>
>>>>> distance.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Tim Butram<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Stuart Young <<a href="mailto:cefiar@gmail.com">cefiar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2012 11:27 AM, "Atrus" <<a href="mailto:atrus6@gmail.com">atrus6@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> What exactly is the benefit of having a high altitude launch<br>
>>>>>>> platform?<br>
>>>>>>> You would still need to reach essentially the same escape velocity,<br>
>>>>>>> but only<br>
>>>>>>> have ~half the distance to achieve that velocity. That seems like a<br>
>>>>>>> worse<br>
>>>>>>> trade off (assuming that your perceived benefit is less air<br>
>>>>>>> resistance).<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Benefits (apart from air resistance):<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> 1. Less gravity to escape (inverse square law).<br>
>>>>>> 2. Less fuel to carry in the actual rocket (less mass to move to get a<br>
>>>>>> payload to escape velocity), which should make things simpler (no need<br>
>>>>>> for<br>
>>>>>> multiple stages, simpler avionics).<br>
>>>>>> 3. Less differences in engine design (high/low atmospheric pressure<br>
>>>>>> compensation in design not necessary) which simplifies engine and<br>
>>>>>> avionics<br>
>>>>>> design.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> And that is just the ones that I can think off of the top of my head.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Btw: Written from my phone, while on site at a client, so pls excuse<br>
>>>>>> any<br>
>>>>>> errors in the text.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>> Cef<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>