<div>Jerry,</div><div><br></div>"
<span style>A lunar lander/colony may not be the best goal. I forgot the source but I recall arguments that a permanent space station is a better first step. Something more than the current station that doesnt need constant altitude boosts (L point located?)"</span><div>
<font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif">I've came across the same argument before too. Essentially why bother climbing down the gravity well to an airless and barren piece of rock. And it seems to me that the space exploration community is largely in favor of going straight to the asteroids first.</font></div>
<div><font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif">Artus: Cole has a point. A rocket needs to carry its own fuel to above 50,000 feet which is the stage where rocket engines are least efficient, are dependent upon favorable weather at the launchpad and not reusable. The mass savings can be considerable and you can compare the Pegasus rocket and the Falcon I for a rough idea in the difference between the launch masses for bringing the same payload to LEO. The only big minus point in not using rockets all the way would be cost (at least till air launched systems mature).</font></div>
<div><font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif"><br clear="all"></font>Warmest regards,<br>Huei Ming<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Alex Cureton-Griffiths <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alexcg@gmail.com">alexcg@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I'm a fan of the one man closed habitat idea - once we achieve that<br>
it's something we could scale to larger habitats, plus it's something<br>
that the average person (i.e. non-hacker) can relate to and thus more<br>
likely to find funds via kickstarter, etc<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:08 PM, cole santos <<a href="mailto:cksantos85@gmail.com">cksantos85@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> JP Aerospace is a perfect example of hackerspace possible projects.<br>
><br>
> I have some ideas for near term projects that can generate cashflow<br>
> with productization,<br>
><br>
> 1. Magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) generator for extracting power from<br>
> rocket exhaust. (help out JP, not much cash here though)<br>
> 2. One man closed habitat - Pressurized co2 enriched algae tanks to<br>
> process co2 and provide food. Biogas to process waste and create<br>
> rocket fuel. Also methane for power using solid oxide fuel cells<br>
> 3. Using hydrogen sulfide from biogas to leach ore. (used for asteroid<br>
> mining with human waste by products)<br>
> 4. Electrostatic confinement fusion (see project promethius)<br>
> 5. Mini chloralkali electrolysis as well as mini haber-bosch for<br>
> in-situ chemical synthesis<br>
> 6. Aeroponic Aquaponics using biogas effluent as a nutrient source.<br>
><br>
> Long term projects should center around mining asteroids for platinum<br>
> everything else is just science and misplaced dreams. Going down a<br>
> gravity well for no apparent reason besides exploration seems silly to<br>
> me.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Atrus <<a href="mailto:atrus6@gmail.com">atrus6@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Except, there really isn't that much difference in gravity from the surface<br>
>> of the earth, 10km or in orbit.<br>
>><br>
>> g on the<br>
>> surface: <a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%29%5E2%2C+g%5D" target="_blank">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%29%5E2%2C+g%5D</a><br>
>><br>
>> g 10km<br>
>> up: <a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B10000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D" target="_blank">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B10000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D</a><br>
>><br>
>> ISS orbit (410 km up)<br>
>> : <a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B410000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D" target="_blank">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+%5Bg+%3D+%286.67*10%5E-11+*+5.9442*10%5E24%29+%2F+%286378100%2B410000%29%5E2%2C+g%5D</a><br>
>><br>
>> This is why launching rockets on a platform will only make the actual launch<br>
>> more difficult. You still have to reach escape velocity to obtain orbit, the<br>
>> only thing you would be doing by launching a rocket at a higher altitude<br>
>> would be the face that you would have to hit that velocity in a shorter<br>
>> distance.<br>
>><br>
>> Tim Butram<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Stuart Young <<a href="mailto:cefiar@gmail.com">cefiar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Jan 3, 2012 11:27 AM, "Atrus" <<a href="mailto:atrus6@gmail.com">atrus6@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > What exactly is the benefit of having a high altitude launch platform?<br>
>>> > You would still need to reach essentially the same escape velocity, but only<br>
>>> > have ~half the distance to achieve that velocity. That seems like a worse<br>
>>> > trade off (assuming that your perceived benefit is less air resistance).<br>
>>><br>
>>> Benefits (apart from air resistance):<br>
>>><br>
>>> 1. Less gravity to escape (inverse square law).<br>
>>> 2. Less fuel to carry in the actual rocket (less mass to move to get a<br>
>>> payload to escape velocity), which should make things simpler (no need for<br>
>>> multiple stages, simpler avionics).<br>
>>> 3. Less differences in engine design (high/low atmospheric pressure<br>
>>> compensation in design not necessary) which simplifies engine and avionics<br>
>>> design.<br>
>>><br>
>>> And that is just the ones that I can think off of the top of my head.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Btw: Written from my phone, while on site at a client, so pls excuse any<br>
>>> errors in the text.<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Cef<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
SpaceProgram mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org">SpaceProgram@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>