<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">How about we colonize 2002 NT7 and alter its orbit (<a href="http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/hammer.html">http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/hammer.html</a>)?<div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Jerry Isdale<br><a href="http://MauiMakers.com">http://MauiMakers.com</a></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><a href="http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/">http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/</a></div></span></div></span></span>
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<br><div><div>On Jan 1, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Ricky Ng-Adam wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Lots of good discussions here! I agree with both Jerry assertion that a permanent space station is better than a lunar base (I never understood the fascination with jumping from one gravity well to the other) and Luke assertion that we should shoot for something that's realistic in the short-term.</div>
<div><br></div>My personal 2 cents (that I've shared this with Alex and is part of the proposal too), is that although we can get a lots of sexy mid-term (space station), long-term (solar system space bases) and very long-term (starship) goals the next step is to thrive to getting a self-sustainable commercial operation in space that can feed other projects. <div>
<br></div><div>So logically the focus on generating the needed resources (materials, food) in space instead of shipping stuff from earth at a prohibitive cost. Ian idea of demo'ing oxygen generation in space is excellent. What I'd add is focusing on getting material. This means space mining or more realistically in the short-term space recycling, so we can build things in space. </div>
<div><br></div><div>An ambitious but achievable goal could be to collect one chunk of space garbage and turn it into a usable pieces of parts for building. Space recycling seems like a sexy enough goal to me and it folds nicely into the trendy "green" movement.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We can also copy off DARPA's Phoenix project (<a href="http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/TTO/Programs/Phoenix.aspx">http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/TTO/Programs/Phoenix.aspx</a>) and make it our own...</div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jerry Isdale <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jerry@mauimakers.com">jerry@mauimakers.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
A lunar lander/colony may not be the best goal. I forgot the source but I recall arguments that a permanent space station is a better first step. Something more than the current station that doesnt need constant altitude boosts (L point located?)<br>
<br>
Getting there and back avoids the gravity well on the other end - you only have to worry about earth's well and re-entry.<br>
<br>
And a station has lots of the same issues to solve as a ground habitat... with lack of gravity to make things more complicated.<br>
<div class="im HOEnZb"><br>
Jerry Isdale<br>
<a href="http://MauiMakers.com/" target="_blank">http://MauiMakers.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/" target="_blank">http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/</a><br>
<br>
</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">On Jan 1, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Luke Weston wrote:<br>
<br>
>> 2. Mini greenhouse on moon within 2 years - I think we could make this a subgoal/milestone of say 'lunar colony in 20 years' which to me is a sexy goal.<br>
><br>
> But what's the point of having a "sexy goal" if it's not realistic?<br>
> Marketing or "selling" something to the public (or governments, or the<br>
> media, or potential benefactors) if you don't have good confidence<br>
> that you can actually deliver it as promised on the timescale promised<br>
> really isn't a very good way to go.<br>
><br>
> Better to have goals that are challenging, optimistic, exciting, but<br>
> still actually within the realm of what you can actually practically<br>
> build, on schedule. You've got to crawl before you can walk.<br>
><br>
> It's worth noting that the only man-rated operational spacecraft<br>
> systems in the world at present are the Soyuz and the Long March 2F<br>
> (and arguably SpaceShipOne, for very brief suborbital ballistic hops<br>
> just barely above the Kármán line).<br>
><br>
> The only private non-government manned spacecraft capability that has<br>
> ever been demonstrated is a couple of brief suborbital ballistic hops,<br>
> just barely above the Kármán line, with SpaceShipOne, and no private<br>
> corporation or NGO has ever demonstrated manned spacecraft launch<br>
> capability to Earth orbit.<br>
><br>
> Small moves, Ellie.<br>
><br>
> Let's suppose you want a manned lunar colony. What milestones would<br>
> you have to hit?<br>
><br>
> Let's consider some plausible milestones:<br>
><br>
> a) Highly reliable unmanned suborbital ballistic rocket launch vehicle<br>
> capability designed and built and tested extensively and proven<br>
><br>
> b) Highly reliable unmanned launch vehicle capability to Earth orbit<br>
> designed and built and tested extensively and proven.<br>
><br>
> (Or, you can buy commercial "off the shelf" access to satellite launch<br>
> vehicles that do (b) and skip (a)).<br>
><br>
> c) Life support and crew support technology designed and built and<br>
> tested, spacecraft man-rated and certified for manned brief suborbital<br>
> ballistic spaceflight. (eg. SpaceShipOne)<br>
><br>
> d) As per (c) but extending that to Earth orbit insertion.<br>
><br>
> e) Trans-lunar injection and lunar orbit rendezvous, guidance and docking.<br>
><br>
> f) Lunar landing<br>
><br>
> g) Sustainable life support, energy, safety and habitability for a lunar colony.<br>
><br>
> h) Transport of a large enough mass of materials and equipment and<br>
> components to the moon to actually build a lunar colony.<br>
><br>
> It's more plausible to work primarily on (a)-(c), or technologies or<br>
> components of relevance to those milestones, or the other ones,<br>
> perhaps in parallel, patiently, over time, before the whole thing very<br>
> slowly starts to become viable.<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Luke<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>伍思力 | Ricky Ng-Adam | <a href="http://xinchejian.com/" target="_blank">http://xinchejian.com</a> | (+86) 186-2126-2521<br>
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