<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>(first - please if you reply to the digest, edit your reply so it doesnt include the ENTIRE digest. That makes it really hard to find the msgs in the next digest.)</div><div><br></div><div>I'm starting a space too and have already invested in some of the pricier equipment on my own (laser, makerbot, woodworking, etc) because *I* want those. My previous experience with the early days of Crashspace (Los Angeles), was that the community came first, followed very shortly by having a physical home space. The community has sustained CrashSpace for its first year (anniversary of first meeting just past on Oct 25). They acquired a LOT of smaller equipment through donations, until they bought a Makerbot for the space (and then got two on loan from members). </div><div><br></div><div>Community is what sets a maker/hacker space apart from a simple kinkos/tech shop. TShops may have some community aspect, but focus is much more on the business and some profit making. I feel member involvement is a very key part - getting people to feel vested in the space and doing volunteer work, donations, etc. That is what makes a successful space. If you cant get people to come back regular, you wont make rent.</div><div><br></div><div>The other side of our new space (Maui Makers, Hawaii), is intended to have a commercial support aspect. Not to earn a profit, but to allow some members to pay extra and have a few hundred sqft of dedicated space for their own project/mini-biz. That will (hopefully) allow us to get a larger space in which to grow. I dont really see the TShop approach as viable, except for some large market areas. They want a lot of different equipment and lots of space ready from day 1. That lets you service just about anyone that walks in the door.</div><div><br></div><div>Hackerspaces on the other hand, tend to evolve their equipment based on what paying members want/need. Maybe its a good collection of hand/power tools, well equipped electronics benches, and some great speakers at weekly meetings. That was more than CS had for the first few months (had lots of great speakers). Members will bring or pool $ to get other capital as time goes on. NYCResistor got their laser because several members pooled their $$ and bought it --- then got paid back through usage/class fees until it was paid off. CS wound up with its 'bots because people pooled $ to get it. They got some decent CNC/lathe equipment 'cause a member wanted/needed a place for his.</div><div><br></div><div>So get the core people, decide what they want/have early, find a space that can house that amount and grab it. Then build out from there.</div><div>Startup costs should be a couple months rent, insurance, utilities, and some infrastructure build out. Then you start getting some paying memberships to help cover those basics, and more people helping choose direction for new equipment. Get people involved and excited. </div><div><br></div><div>Others, please be nice to new spaces with new "biz" models. There are some spaces/people who think the only path for a Real True Hackerspace is one that makes no pretense of actually making money, even to cover expenses. That path may work for some for a while, but don't try to force your religion on those that have somewhat different views. A successful space needs both community AND income.</div><div><br></div><div>jerry isdale</div><div><a href="http://mauiMakers.com">http://mauiMakers.com</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Message: 1<br>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:20:41 -0700<br>From: Grant Henninger <<a href="mailto:grant.henninger@gmail.com">grant.henninger@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Finance] Finance Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4<br>To: Jer?l Jer?l <<a href="mailto:0.jerel.0@gmail.com">0.jerel.0@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:finance@lists.hackerspaces.org">finance@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>Message-ID:<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><<a href="mailto:AANLkTimB6JJjLdipwYJsR5ay9wADp3To-R7cUiEdDwER@mail.gmail.com">AANLkTimB6JJjLdipwYJsR5ay9wADp3To-R7cUiEdDwER@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>To tell you the truth, I hadn't been thinking about using a gym-type<br>membership model, I had been thinking of using a model more along the lines<br>of Kinko's (a self-serve photocopy store). However, after looking at it and<br>running the numbers, I understand why every hackerspace, whether it's<br>for-profit or not, uses a membership based model.<br><br>I don't agree with you when you say that the more you focus on the balance<br>sheet, the more you lose focus of people. Having a healthy and sustainable<br>business, whether for-profit or not, is a necessity to be able to serve<br>people and enable their creations. At the same time, focusing on the<br>members of the community is important to ensure the balance sheet stays<br>strong. You simply can't have one without the other.<br><br>I don't intend to build a hackerspace with the only intention of making<br>money. I work for a non-profit now and am very involved in my community.<br> I'm fairly passionate about helping people. My focus here on the budget<br>was simply because this is the finance mailing list. I thought that this<br>was where these types of discussions were suppose to happen.<br><br>-Grant<br></div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><blockquote type="cite">Hacker Space is an organization - Hacker Space is about the members,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the people, the community, the group.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If you lose sight of that then you miss the whole concept.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hacker Space is not a business. It is not about the location, the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">equipment the toys.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Its heart - its core is people.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The more you make it about balance sheets, the more you lose focus of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">people.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The more you lose focus of people, the more your balance sheet will be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in the red.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--conversely--<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The more you make it about the people, the projects, the group effort,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the community - the more it will thrive.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">It sounds to me like you are going for more a gym/fitness center<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">business model.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Grant, i do not know you, nor am i attacking your idea.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">however, in my opinion you are selling yourself short.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- if you go into this with a retail mentality you will be missing 98%<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of what Hacker Space is all about.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#144FAE"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#006312"><br></font></font></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>