<div dir="ltr">I think you should stay out of south american politics.  And I'm not intending to invoke monroe doctrine.  I used to live there, and I stay out of it.  It's not my place to involve myself in the complexities there.  I can reasonably say this though... there were no good guys in any of the situations you are referring to.<div><br></div><div>You want to cast some huge swathe of horribleness on US external influence... fine... we've gone done stuck our proverbial dick in the mashed potatoes plenty of times.  But your country would still be a soviet satellite state without us, and as far as international active involvement goes historically... the US has been the nicest super power to ever exist in global history.  So sure, we've fucked up.  And continue to.  But so far we're doing better than anyone else yet.  Feel free to hop in and do better.  Or feel free to sit on the sidelines.  We are international and national fuckups.  America was founded by fuckups, for fuckups.  We're proud of our fuckup heritage.  We're the bastard children of every other country.  But that said... we are doing better than others.  You want to lead... lead.  You don't want to.. then follow or get out of the way.</div><div><br></div><div>I am down with people calling out the US for it's mistakes.  It's a fundamental tenant of a free society.  Enshrined in the magna carta.  But, if you want to just say shit could be better... well that's not constructive.  Go make it better.  Cecilia is trying to make shit better.  You are just shitting all over that.  You've provided no better alternative.  That's not constructive.  It's just flame bait man.</div><div><br></div><div>You have some solid concerns... but I don't see you following them up with a solution.  And frankly... at some level, all activism requires an above board legal frameworked interaction with the world... otherwise they end up like the palestinian liberation movement, trapped by their own extremists incapable of any meaningful traction, forever the victim of a nation with a better political and public outreach.</div><div><br></div><div>Sure sometimes they need their own backchannels and clandestine components.  But they need the above board shit just as badly.</div><div><br></div><div>Change is dangerous.  Always has been.  Always will be.  But our little nation of fuckups have proven that fucking up is definitely better than hoping shit gets better and not fucking up.</div><div><br></div><div>-Matt</div><div><br></div><div>fuckups for the win.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 12:16 PM, idnc_sk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:idnc_sk@vpslab.org" target="_blank">idnc_sk@vpslab.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>:) <br>
      <br>
      I'd like to point that it was the US military who actively removed
      almost every single<br>
      democratically elected leader in south america, africa and partly
      in asia whenever their<br>
      pro-people "ideology" interfered with corporate interests. Not
      "US" interests, not with<br>
      the interests of "US" citizens, with corporate interests. <br>
    </p>
    <p>[Harold Pinter on US foreign policy]<br>
      <a class="m_-7896032220950095886moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flvLfSSR1d4" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=flvLfSSR1d4</a></p><div><div class="h5">
    <br>
    <div class="m_-7896032220950095886moz-cite-prefix">On 07/11/2017 06:09 PM, Matt Joyce
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">I'd like to point out it was the US military that
        basically built the internet.</div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 11:29 AM,
          idnc_sk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:idnc_sk@vpslab.org" target="_blank">idnc_sk@vpslab.org</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
              <p>I would definitely dial that enthusiasm down a little.
                Anyone who cared to check <br>
                knows how important of a role Stanford plays as an arm
                of the military industrial <br>
                complex. Regardless of how many "transformations" LTT
                (claims to have) underwent, <br>
                we are not living in some fairyland! Love and music are
                both great, I do enjoy <br>
                SF "yt" lectures, nevertheless there is no room for
                naivety, no time to waste <br>
                on projects / initiatives steered to lead  nowhere.
                Without going into details, <br>
                pleas please please don't be this naive, you are
                actually harming people. Let me put <br>
                it clearly, people might *die* because of such naivety.
                How many activists/reporters/<br>
                whistle-blowers died because of people like you? How
                many hundreds if not thousands <br>
                fell victim to wikileaks and all the "good" people
                knowingly or unknowingly propagating <br>
                their carefully constructed image? Do you _know_ who the
                people in that org are? </p>
              <p>No, you don't</p>
              <p>Please, don't harm people<br>
              </p>
              <p><br>
              </p>
              <p><3 <3 <3<br>
              </p>
              <p>idnc_sk<br>
              </p>
              <div>
                <div class="m_-7896032220950095886h5"> <br>
                  <div class="m_-7896032220950095886m_5556998774754547963moz-cite-prefix">On
                    07/11/2017 03:38 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div>
                  <div class="m_-7896032220950095886h5">
                    <div dir="auto">
                      <div dir="auto">Hi Hi, dear all !  Hope everybody
                        is doing great and feeling fabulous, woohoo!!!
                         :D</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                        There are lots of still unknown great projects
                        and ideas in this world, my dear hackers.  So I
                        inviting you all to share your projects on the
                        Liberation Tech discussion list.  :)</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">For 9 years, until the end of last
                        March, Liberation Tech was a project of Stanford
                        University.  Now we are restructuring it to make
                        it independent.  Wait for good news, people!  ;)</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">It will be great to see
                        interaction among good people with the same
                        interests:  building a better future for all, a
                        fairer and more peaceful world, protecting the
                        human rights against the oppression of
                        governments and companies.  <3</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">Take care and have a great day,
                        with much music and love, dear all !  <3</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">@cecitanaka & the lovely
                        Liberation Tech Team  <3</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">----------
                        Forwarded message ----------<br>
                        From: "Cecilia Tanaka" <<a href="mailto:cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com" target="_blank">cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com</a>><br>
                        Date: Jul 11, 2017 9:14 AM<br>
                        Subject: Re: Black Highlighter + Important PS<br>
                        To: "liberationtech" <<a href="mailto:liberationtech@lists.stanford.edu" target="_blank">liberationtech@lists.stanford<wbr>.edu</a>><br>
                        Cc: <br>
                        <br type="attribution">
                        <blockquote class="m_-7896032220950095886m_5556998774754547963m_3055422467836879647quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="auto">
                            <div>Oh, the project doesn't need to be
                              written in English only, but please
                              remember that a little review in English
                              can be very, very useful.</div>
                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto">Sorry everybody for the bad
                              format of the original message.  It's
                              ugly, meh again!  :((</div>
                            <div class="m_-7896032220950095886m_5556998774754547963m_3055422467836879647elided-text">
                              <div dir="auto"><br>
                                <div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br>
                                  <div class="gmail_quote">On Jul 11,
                                    2017 8:57 AM, "Cecilia Tanaka" <<a href="mailto:cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com" target="_blank">cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com</a>>
                                    wrote:<br type="attribution">
                                    <blockquote class="m_-7896032220950095886m_5556998774754547963m_3055422467836879647m_-5833003875436361256quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                      <div dir="auto">
                                        <div dir="auto">It's one of the
                                          projects by Brian Dickens
                                          (@hostilefork) and I thought
                                          it would be interesting to
                                          share it with LibTech
                                          community.<br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div dir="auto"><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div dir="auto"><a href="http://blackhighlighter.hostilefork.com/" target="_blank">http://blackhighlighter.hostil<wbr>efork.com/</a><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div dir="auto">
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">A little excerpt
                                            of it:</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">"Blackhighlighter
                                            combines novel editing with
                                            in-browser cryptography to
                                            facilitate new ways of
                                            communicating. It was
                                            initially designed for a
                                            Sunlight Foundation contest
                                            to improve transparency in
                                            correspondence with elected
                                            officials. </div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">However, it was
                                            later evolved to a widget
                                            that helps hybridize
                                            redaction with
                                            accountability in many
                                            possible scenarios. It has
                                            applications to open
                                            government, but also
                                            generally raising the bar
                                            for fairness in
                                            communications."</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">==========</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">Important PS:  -
                                            I was thinking about posting
                                            on Liberation Tech's twitter
                                            account all the new projects
                                            presented on this public
                                            list, since they are related
                                            to technology and society
                                             (human rights,
                                            surveillance, privacy,
                                            freedom of the press and
                                            expression, etc).  </div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">Sorry, we will
                                            *not* make "free
                                            merchandising" to companies
                                            and, please, no huge ego
                                            trips.  We just want to
                                            share new ideas with the
                                            world and hack it, make it
                                            much better.  :D<br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">You can mention
                                            projects and institutions
                                            you really appreciate, your
                                            own projects, interesting
                                            posts, news, essays, books,
                                            ideas, etc.  Just remember
                                            you and your project (or
                                            other thing)  can be
                                            criticized, receive some
                                            suggestions or  - who knows?
                                            -  good help to become even
                                            better, yayyy!!!  :D</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">There are
                                            hundreds of intelligent and
                                            very interesting people on
                                            this list.  Some projects
                                            can be discussed here and
                                            receive technical
                                            corrections and/or
                                            suggestions, support,
                                            partnership...  So many
                                            lovely possibilities!  <3</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">Oh, and if
                                            possible, share your
                                            favorite project with us
                                            mentioning your @ on
                                            Twitter, please!  :)</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">Thank you a lot,
                                            dear all!  Much love for you
                                            and my best wishes!  <3</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">Ceci</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">PS's PS:  -  I
                                            survived to hospital, but
                                            not my notebook.  You know,
                                            lots of virus there,
                                            hahaha!!  ;D</div>
                                          <div style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:1em" dir="auto">Well, try to
                                            ignore the crazy
                                            auto-corrections of this
                                            bizarre new cellphone,
                                            please.  I bought a
                                            "dumbphone" instead of a
                                            "smartphone", meh!  :(</div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
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    <br>
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