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<p>Well, only about 75% bunk. :P</p>
<p>Whether the instructor is liable is up for debate, probably in
court. It would be a bad lawyer that didn't name the instructor
AND the space, AND the officers and directors.</p>
<p>The problem with a waiver is that it's very difficult to enforce
in a fairly open environment. Furthermore it it's more of a "belt
and suspenders" solution. (A lot of lawyers advocate for that and
they're just being lawyers... i.e. paranoid.) A sign on the wall
has the same effect and requires no enforcement - no collection
and storage of forms, no mapping signatures to people, etc. Then
the only record-keeping is when the sign went up. I would also
assume that an instructor teaching how to soldier would cover
safety before the class started.</p>
<p>Ahh, I miss Ace Junkyard. (look it up. :P)<br>
</p>
<p>Christie<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/21/2016 10:25 AM, dosman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D57FA1A5-EC4A-46C4-846C-5EB9638012CF@packetsniffers.org"
type="cite">
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100% pure bunk. If they are on your property (counts for rented
property too) then you can be found liable. Now move on with life.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Anyone can sue your space at any time for anything,
your only protection is due-dilagence. Have public liability
insurance for your space. Have everyone stepping into your space
sign an injury liability waiver. Liability waivers don’t stop
anyone from sueing, but it certainly makes it harder for them
them in the court room if they do sue. If you are using tools,
give folks a heads up of common ways to avoid injury (the tip of
the soldering iron is hot, no touchy. leaded solder is bad, keep
your fingers out of your mouth, etc). If you are doing something
dangerous, take standard precautions: use safety glasses/full
face shield, gloves, aprons, and any other safety gear merited
for the activity should the activity go wrong. </div>
<br class="">
<div class="">If something does go bad, and someone wants to
lawyer up, having done these things makes it way harder for
someone to prove you were negligent in the court room. Unless
you were actually being negligent. Doing all these things, then
letting some rando's kids juggle chainsaws in your space is
dumb. It takes vigilance to keep a place safe and still allow
hackerspace anarchy to thrive. There’s no 100% way to ensure
everything will be ok, but not doing something because of fear
of being sued is no way to operate. Within reason of course.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">-dosman</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jul 21, 2016, at 12:00 PM, Pete Prodoehl
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:raster@gmail.com" class="">raster@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> <br
class="">
Because my space sometimes has gloom and doom people,
someone brought up the idea that if you charge for a
class, you could be held responsible if someone in the
class gets injured. This would be different than if you
did *not* charge for a class because there is no (or
less?) expectation of responsibility if you are not
charging for your services/expertise.<br class="">
<br class="">
I think the thought is that a student would try to sue
you personally versus the space, and there was a
suggestion that individuals who teach should get their
own personal insurance that would cover the teaching
they do. (The space has its own insurance and
waiver/disclaimer forms that everyone signs.)<br
class="">
<br class="">
I am definitely not a lawyer, but I'd love to hear what
others think of that idea. (And yes, I am in the
overly-litigious United States.)<br class="">
<br class="">
Pete<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/21/16 10:42 AM,
Silence Dogood wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP_sDUHw8gkc2bJQE1auupvxvwyqfJREOx0yaH1Ob5Yw_LEVbw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">one side benefit of charging
for classes is allowing the class teachers to
profit. this can be particularly important for
space members who need supplemental income to afford
their dues or to get them by between contracts /
gigs / what have you.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at
6:24 AM, webmind <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:webmind@puscii.nl"
target="_blank" class="">webmind@puscii.nl</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On
20/07/16 17:48, Chad Elish wrote:<br class="">
> Here’s a question for everyone,<br
class="">
><br class="">
> What do you normally charge for your
classes?<br class="">
> I know its a big cash cow for spaces to
make up income.<br class="">
<br class="">
</span>Hmm, not here. I think most Dutch spaces
mostly run on membership-income.<br class="">
<br class="">
Both spaces in Amsterdam do not have a set
price, LAG generally asks<br class="">
donation Technologia Incognita mostly the same
or people ask cost-price.<br class="">
IJHack (a "space" without a space) has been
doing workshops to generate<br class="">
some income, I think they did twice the cost
price to have a buffer of<br class="">
components or be able to share kits.<br class="">
<span class=""><br class="">
> We’re currently at $40.00 for a learn to
solder class which you take<br class="">
> home an arduino you soldered together. We
recently noticed tech shop<br class="">
> charging $99 for soldering a blinking
badge together.<br class="">
<br class="">
</span>Do a lot of spaces elsewhere use
workshops/services as a way of<br class="">
providing basic-income for the space? Do spaces
have other models<br class="">
outside of services or membership to generate
base-income?<br class="">
<br class="">
At LAG we're currently looking at alternative
ways of generating income<br class="">
for the rent/etc.<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks!<br class="">
<span class="HOEnZb"><font class=""
color="#888888"><br class="">
webmind<br class="">
</font></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
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