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<p>It is a little-known fact that it is perfectly legitimate to
refuse to comply with a law if you have a good-faith argument that
the law should change. You would have a good faith First Amendment
challenge to a law denying people of a certain religion a freedom
others enjoy.</p>
<p>What I have seen in culture generally, but manifest more
specifically in hackerspaces is the assumption that certain things
are somehow law (such as restricting general public access to
dangerous tools or police authority, discrimination or
non-discrimination, etc.) that do not exist in any law, whether
precedent or legislative, or that don't apply as generally as most
believe. Yet I see many hackerspaces who believe they must
integrate these perceived laws or rules into their mission
statement or operating practices.<br>
</p>
<p>This is much the same mentality that gave the recording industry
the foundation for their huge rulings against relatively innocent
people: the belief that something is really illegal is inculcated
into society then people in general begin to uphold the belief in
court through the jury deliberation process. (As an aside, this is
why we HAVE juries in the US - so that the sentiment of society
can be reflected in court decisions.) <br>
</p>
<p>As hackers, we are all in a unique position to challenge the
hegemonic tendency of culture and the sway of large organizational
interests to change what we believe is legal, gently pushing back
on what we believe to be right and just.</p>
<p>So make your rules and mission statements to be what you believe
is RIGHT, not what you believe to be LEGAL unless you actually are
a lawyer who practices in the area. Don't let other interests
shift our culture away from it.</p>
<p>Christie Dudley<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/22/2016 11:41 PM, Jurgen Gaeremyn
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:2e7a66a8-d454-dad2-0dcf-b6ec2896a001@gaeremyn.be"
type="cite">
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<p>Just a stupid question: do you put ethnicity and religion as
questionnaire fields in your registration form?</p>
<p>If you don't ask, you don't know. And if you have no indication
to suspect "such dangerous behaviour as being muslim" (sic) ...
there's no indication to ban them from whatever course. It has
never been your job to do an identity check, and even the act of
asking... I don't think you even have the right to investigate
their answers.</p>
<p>Obviously, you could put a waiver in your registration form
that members are not allowed to apply their skills developed in
this hackerspace to engage in terrorist or other forms of
illegal activity. You could even have fun in writing it in such
a broad or silly way that lawyers would have a hell of a time
applying it in court... <br>
</p>
<p>If anyone ever comments on the validity of this, just ask the
question how you should validate if one is muslim? (just as a
pun: according to those muslims that engage in terrorist
activity, all other muslims are not true muslims, and it is
allowed to lie against "kufar" - so the muslim not respecting
you will deny being a muslim and you will stigmatize the honest
ones with no malintentions)<br>
</p>
Just my thaught<br>
Jurgen<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22-07-16 23:05, Sparr wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CANp3UNCr6XfeWwJguB69VbfT=iTG206AkwF+ankeyBC5Q+K_zg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I've been on the losing side of lighter versions
of this argument a few times over the past ten years, at
various hackerspaces. A lot of people claim that they think
that the law trumps a space's charter or mission statement.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here in the USA, we're looking at a future where it is
scarily plausible that some segment of the population will
be banned from a lot of activities, which might include
things such as "taking machine shop classes" or "working
with explosive gases".<br>
<br>
When your state or federal legislature passes a law, or your
president issues an executive order, that says Muslims (or
some ethnic minority) can't do those things, where will you
stand on whether your space follows that law or not?</div>
</div>
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