<p dir="ltr">Please, lets try to keep from flaming. It ruins any debate. </p>
<p dir="ltr">I think we can all agree we want the "hacker spirit" to continue alive, well, and irreverent. Even while going mainstream, which already is happening. </p>
<p dir="ltr">It'snot a question of being elitist or excluding people, but of educating, encouraging, and highlighting excellent hacking, and I think improving society. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Perhaps the question is, what to do if perhaps "hacker tennis shoes", "hacker hamburger", "hacker fashion wear", "hacker home decoration" and "hacker marketing concepts" start to appear. </p>
<p dir="ltr">It generally happens if there nothing that maintains a reasonable meaning. Of what is the term "hacker" - and by consequence, what is not?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Some say that most never even claim they are hackers - it is a community of generally humble, usually not very spotlight-loving people. </p>
<p dir="ltr">It is more of a title earned through recognition, from others of the group. Which seems quite reasonable.</p>
<p dir="ltr"> </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">Em 23/09/2015 1:47 AM, "Michel Gallant" <<a href="mailto:sfxman@gmail.com">sfxman@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Mitch Altman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:maltman23@hotmail.com" target="_blank">maltman23@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr">Why would you want to keep people away from hackerspaces? So many hackerspaces around the world are thriving communities because we are open to new people. New people being new ideas, and new energy, and help us grow and stretch in ways that wouldn't be possible otherwise. The world of hackerspaces has only grown because we are open to new people and ideas. <br></div></div></blockquote><div>Dude, if you think that, you're being willfully ignorant of the elitism and one-upmanship present in hackerspaces, especially those that focus on computer security. I don't think you're that ignorant, so please stop pretending and acknowledge the reality.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="ltr"><br>"Hacking" has many definitions. The one Lisha wrote about is a great one. And it is only good if we share it. <br><br>Let's keep sharing. <br><br>If someone becomes "assimilated", whatever, that's their choice. Myself, I'll continue to encourage everyone I meet to explore and do what they might love to do. Hackerspaces are fantastic communities for this. I'd love to see more people, not less. More people in the world need these opportunities for creation and community. <br><br>And, if people make some money, or, better yet, make a living from projects they love, all the better! Sure beats working at some stupid job, yes? <br><br>Best, <br>Mitch. <br><br><br>> To: <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>> From: <a href="mailto:hellekin@dyne.org" target="_blank">hellekin@dyne.org</a><br>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:48:14 -0300<br>> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] bring back the crime - "hacker" is starting to mean "creative entrepeneur"<div><div><br>> <br>> On 09/22/2015 03:19 PM, Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen wrote:<br>> >><br>> >> Miss the good old association with crime - it made all these people stay<br>> >> very far away.<br>> >><br>> > <br>> > Thank [Thor|Athena] that there's someone with some spirit on the list.<br>> > <br>> <br>> I said earlier I didn't like the association with crime. Probably you<br>> misinterpreted it, so I want to clarify. Before corporations invaded<br>> the Internet, before firewalls existed, "computer crime" was probably<br>> not a term at all. "Computer fraud" was, with the meaning of "fraud<br>> committed with a computer". Fraud was the crime: not using a computer,<br>> exploring networks, or gaining access to computers outside your premises.<br>> <br>> When I said I didn't like the association with crime, it's because the<br>> term "hacker" is not a made up thing like "intellectual property" that<br>> confounds many different things into one meaningless term. But it has<br>> become just that, and the association with crime is part of why this<br>> happened. When journalists brandish "hacker", they never ever mean a<br>> clever solution to a tricky problem, or going where nobody has gone<br>> before (fortunately, hackers don't wear spandex uniforms).<br>> <br>> What is considered crime is another part of the picture: it's certainly<br>> a crime to penetrate an organization's network, extract secret document,<br>> and blackmail the organization. The crime is "blackmail". Whether it<br>> is a crime to penetrate an organization's network, extract secret<br>> information, and blow the whistle is another case entirely; if the<br>> secret document is revealing a crime, I think it's justice. I see no<br>> "crime" in hacking under the hacker ethics, yet most countries made it a<br>> crime, and often one that makes guns and killing people more appealing<br>> than hitting the Enter key.<br>> <br>> The problem is not hacking, but the semantic field that's been applied<br>> to it to blur its meaning. Is a protest a crime? In the last years we<br>> can certainly wonder. The skin of what constitutes a crime moves with<br>> the society's breathing. The original crime of hacking is to not remain<br>> inside the preloaded squares of your life. This happens to be the<br>> original duty of any citizen in a democracy to question authority--and<br>> I'm not only talking about government.<br>> <br>> Cheers,<br>> <br>> ==<br>> hk<br>> <br>> -- <br>> _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom<br>> (_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * <a href="https://www.dyne.org/donate/" target="_blank">https://www.dyne.org/donate/</a><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Discuss mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br> </div></div></div></div>
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