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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/02/15 00:27, Edward L Platt
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKb0FmH2GQy430b55juREE9DP4NRmPGRjM6dYAoN5sQCbyFWaQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">From the outside, this looks like a pretty good
example of how leaders *should* respond to a complaint. Members
complained, and they responded by:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- taking the member complaint seriously<br>
- issuing clear warnings<br>
- giving specifics about what the problem was</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
They haven't even said which part of the the Code of Conduct I
violated!<br>
<br>
When I asked for details after the second warning, the best they
could come up with was that I'd said 'I don't care how they feel' in
IRC. And they took that out of context. What does that tell you?<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKb0FmH2GQy430b55juREE9DP4NRmPGRjM6dYAoN5sQCbyFWaQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>- following agreed-upon procedures</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some questions to ask in cases like this:</div>
<div>- Why are people complaining about your behavior?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Cos they don't like what they perceive to be 'smartarses' ?<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKb0FmH2GQy430b55juREE9DP4NRmPGRjM6dYAoN5sQCbyFWaQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>- Do you disagree with the code of conduct, or do you
disagree with how it's being applied?</div>
<div>- Is the leadership applying policies unevenly? If so, how?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It sounds like you have a disagreement with a majority of
the leadership, and at least some of the members about what
types of behavior are acceptable. If this is really an abuse
of power, there are probably a lot of bystanders who are just
going along with things because they don't want to make a
fuss. I second the suggestion of finding them privately.
Otherwise, you have to decide what's more important to you:
being a part of that community, or not having to follow their
norms.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Ed</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 3:56 PM, peter
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:phm@riseup.net" target="_blank">phm@riseup.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
Does anyone have advice/experience with the leadership
abusing their powers, doing unconstitutional/unethical
things? (specifically: bullying members with mental
'abnormalities').<br>
<br>
What happened? Did anyone try to stop it? Has anyone ever
called an EGM (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_general_meeting"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_general_meeting</a>)
about it?<br>
<br>
I'm attempting to do this at London Hackspace.<br>
<br>
<br>
Grievance Procedure Update - Peter Meadows banned for one
year:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/london-hack-space/Io8vDQvaT84"
target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/london-hack-space/Io8vDQvaT84</a><br>
<br>
Notification of a second formal warning for Peter Meadows:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/london-hack-space/7WE1zuRWKbk"
target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/london-hack-space/7WE1zuRWKbk</a><br>
<br>
Fwd: Re: Your first formal warning:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/london-hack-space/bDlpFC6Lg2o"
target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/london-hack-space/bDlpFC6Lg2o</a><br>
<br>
Fwd: Re: Your behaviour in IRC:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/london-hack-space/uNFjdFI7tmY"
target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/london-hack-space/uNFjdFI7tmY</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Thread about my food getting chucked in the bin:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/london-hack-space/E4Gom_ave4c"
target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/london-hack-space/E4Gom_ave4c</a><br>
<br>
(I suspect this was done by a 'trustee' as revenge for me
suggesting 'doorbot' should<br>
not be blaring out loud music into the space every 5
minutes. (although nobody has owned up to doing it,
(despite other members insisting that it was not a
mistake, and it was done with the best interests of the
space at heart)):<br>
<br>
<br>
Thread in which I'm accused of 'de-humanising' the cleaner
by calling it 'it':<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/london-hack-space/gFJpT3zPj3c"
target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/london-hack-space/gFJpT3zPj3c</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I think they invented the stuff about IRL harassment
because they would look silly banning me just for supposed
'trolling'. (I was NOT 'trolling').<br>
<br>
There is CCTV in the space, so we can determine very
easily if I was 'following' people around. They refuse to
give any details about what the CCTV shows.<br>
They refuse to give any details about the nature of the
real life harassment. I can provide many witnesses that
spent time with me day to day in the space, and that will
testify that I have not harassed anyone.<br>
<br>
David Potocnik writes:<br>
<br>
" <span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Anyway,
I've been linked to this discussion and I can't see a
very descriptive account of what actually happened.
"Harassment" can be a number of things and it is also
perceived/felt (right?), so I suggest being more
expressive."<br>
<br>
And:<br>
</span><br>
" <span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">This
is the second example of somebody being banned for other
people</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">finding
them "annoying". With anonymity, the trustees become an</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">arbiter
of good taste (TM) at their own discretion, possibly
backed up</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">by
howling wolves. Fine. I'm sure the Trustees are aware of
the</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">problems
in both historic examples of various annoyances to</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">"civility",
and on the other side a modern trend in false harassment</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">accusations.
(Even if this is not the case here).</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">This
was actually apparent in the linked "it" email on<span> </span></span><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">cleaning</span><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">.
Peter</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">was
accused of "dehumanizing" (morally bad!) a<span> </span></span><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">cleaner</span><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">.
But when I</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">read
into it, what I saw was him/it playing an (annoying)
semantic</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">game:
idea of doing away with normal conception of "human
person". As</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I
read it, this is only "insulting" if you read it through
your own</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">moral
lens, the proper one. He/it wasn't being selectively</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">"dehumanizing"
either.</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">For
me it was an example of this person's somewhat annoying
and</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">non-constructive
behaviour, as much as general cultural hegemony."<br>
<br>
And:<br>
</span><br>
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">"Guys,
restating, I am not - or was not - agitating on
anyone's behalf.</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Related,
nothing is being put "up for debate", though things
are</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">freely
debated. (Etc. A careful reader might have found more
worrying</span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">cues
in follow up responses to my last one.)"</span><br>
</span><br>
<br>
Then they accuse him of 'agitating' on my behalf. <br>
<br>
So clearly anyone that speaks up in my favour is going to
get bullied like this.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
They are now censoring my list posts, so I have no way to
respond to the false allegations.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
London Hackspace Ltd Articles of Association:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://london.hackspace.org.uk/organisation/docs/articles.pdf"
target="_blank">https://london.hackspace.org.uk/organisation/docs/articles.pdf</a><br>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Organisation"
target="_blank">https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Organisation</a><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
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href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
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-- <br>
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<div dir="ltr">Edward L. Platt
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target="_blank">http://elplatt.com</a></div>
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<div>This electronic mail message was sent from my desktop
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>
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