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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/02/15 04:11, justin corwin wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CABy=Sa=d1RV7vV=9afnZoyZWchM_xCvK5Xmu2QWBdygO6QwFmQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Look, Peter, this is a great example of the larger
issue I feel is at play here. I'm gonna belabor the point a
little, and I apologize for that, but it seems necessary for
clarity.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The initial "it" thing is fairly innocuous. In fact, it's
not entirely clear you even were referring to a person as an
"it" or to the cleaning service, independent of any person.
I'll admit the initial objection seemed nitpicky to me, an
unproductive jab. Who cares about you maybe using an
impersonal reference for a person? But then you dig your heels
in and spend ages arguing with anyone who posts in that thread
in an escalating attempt to be "right". </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Someone later makes the fairly bland assertion that you
should use the pronouns that people prefer, out of basic
respect for others. Fine, not even applicable, since you
haven't talked to the cleaner personally(I assume)! But you
feel compelled to object even to that, claiming you don't have
time to keep track of people's pronouns or ask for them. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And then this quote. In which you say you're going to
ignore the request not to use "it" for people, because you
think it's funny(presumably it's funny because it upsets
people?). Anyone who doesn't or is personally offended is
required to come to you and be shown just how superior your
sense of humor is to theirs. And if they can somehow prove to
you it isn't funny to them, regardless of your no doubt
amazing explanation, you'll stop. you promise. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<br>
errr. no. But not time to explain this right now.<br>
<br>
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cite="mid:CABy=Sa=d1RV7vV=9afnZoyZWchM_xCvK5Xmu2QWBdygO6QwFmQ@mail.gmail.com"
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>First of all, this is all amazingly disingenuous. I in now
And even if it were all sincere, you're essentially saying
that things that are funny to you are more important than
respecting others requests. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But more importantly, it's all so unnecessary. Why were you
still arguing about this in the first place, three emails
later? It's such a pointless argument about a tiny objection
that can't possibly have been something you cared that much
about. If you had just said "sure fine whatever", the whole
issue goes away. And I see that pattern happening over and
over again, both in the LHS threads, and even here now. There
are people in the LHS thread complaining that when they ask
you to stop contacting them, they get more messages instead. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<br>
I like philosophy/logic/reasoning/rhetoric/critical thinking. I
think it's good to practise these skills, and fun to do in it's own
right.<br>
<br>
If they don't, why did they keep replying?<br>
<br>
They did not ask me to stop contacting them. If they didn't reply to
me, I wouldn't have replied back! (duh)<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>So I don't think it's anything in particular. It's not the
actions, or a specific email. It's that you have a pattern,
and so they've become unwilling to extend you the benefit of
the doubt. Everything is interpreted as negatively as
possible, because you never ever back off or compromise. I'm
willing to bet that's what they're talking about IRL as well.
You probably got some people who felt trapped in a
conversation because you refused to shut up, and ignored every
obvious sign they wanted the interaction to be over. <br>
</div>
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<br>
haha. Yes. that's why they kept replying! They were trapped because
I kept mistaking them wanting the last word for them wanted to
continue the conversation!<br>
<br>
BTW: A few people did say 'please don't talk to me' and so I didn't.
No problem.<br>
<br>
<br>
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cite="mid:CABy=Sa=d1RV7vV=9afnZoyZWchM_xCvK5Xmu2QWBdygO6QwFmQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 6:06 PM, peter
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:phm@riseup.net" target="_blank">phm@riseup.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class=""> <br>
<div>On 21/02/15 01:22, Brendan Halliday wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Peter,</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The
tone you took combined with your cherrypicked
examples of your interpretation of 'good'
behaviour set several red flags. </span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I've
been helping out and organising at many
community organisations over the years and it's
been a constant that the members that are the
most toxic and most dangerous to the community
are the ones who:</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">1.
Must always have the last word. Always.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">2.
Disagree with the stated (or sometimes poorly
communicated) expected conduct of the group</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">3.
Generally agitate for their own goals (which
usually do not match up with the organisations')</span><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> while
attempting to remain buddies with the rest of
the membership.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">So
I spent less than a minute reading your links
and came across this:</span></div>
<span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
/On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 10:23:53 AM UTC,
Peter Meadows wrote:/ </span><br
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">> </span><br
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
/I don't have time to go around asking
everyone which pronouns they </span><br
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
prefer! <br>
> <br>
> I think it's funny to call people 'it'.
If it upsets them, it can come <br>
> and talk to me and I'll try to help it
develop a sense of humour. (and <br>
</div>
<span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
if it really can't do this, I'll stop calling
it 'it' in public). / </span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span> What's wrong with this? I said that my first
preference would be to try and explain the humour, and
that it's not nasty. And if that could not be done, I
would stop doing it.<span class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">To
me, the links you have provided have indicated
that the LHS executive have acted very clearly
and with considerable cohesion on this matter.
It's also clear that they are familiar with the
Geek Social Fallacies and do not wish them to
rule their space.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">From
all indications you have provided, I can't see
any </span><span
style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">actions as
bullying or seeming to be motivated by hidden
reasons. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">If
anything, you should move on and perhaps
re-evaluate how you handle social interactions -
because if you're not the unconstructive member
that you're portraying, then you need to work on
communicating it clearer.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
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</span></div>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Justin Corwin<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:outlawpoet@gmail.com"
target="_blank">outlawpoet@gmail.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://programmaticconquest.tumblr.com"
target="_blank">http://programmaticconquest.tumblr.com</a><br>
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href="http://outlawpoet.tumblr.com" target="_blank">http://outlawpoet.tumblr.com</a></div>
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