<div dir="ltr">Look, Peter, this is a great example of the larger issue I feel is at play here. I'm gonna belabor the point a little, and I apologize for that, but it seems necessary for clarity. <div><br></div><div>The initial "it" thing is fairly innocuous. In fact, it's not entirely clear you even were referring to a person as an "it" or to the cleaning service, independent of any person. I'll admit the initial objection seemed nitpicky to me, an unproductive jab. Who cares about you maybe using an impersonal reference for a person? But then you dig your heels in and spend ages arguing with anyone who posts in that thread in an escalating attempt to be "right". </div><div><br></div><div>Someone later makes the fairly bland assertion that you should use the pronouns that people prefer, out of basic respect for others. Fine, not even applicable, since you haven't talked to the cleaner personally(I assume)! But you feel compelled to object even to that, claiming you don't have time to keep track of people's pronouns or ask for them. </div><div><br></div><div>And then this quote. In which you say you're going to ignore the request not to use "it" for people, because you think it's funny(presumably it's funny because it upsets people?). Anyone who doesn't or is personally offended is required to come to you and be shown just how superior your sense of humor is to theirs. And if they can somehow prove to you it isn't funny to them, regardless of your no doubt amazing explanation, you'll stop. you promise. </div><div><br></div><div>First of all, this is all amazingly disingenuous. I in now And even if it were all sincere, you're essentially saying that things that are funny to you are more important than respecting others requests. </div><div><br></div><div>But more importantly, it's all so unnecessary. Why were you still arguing about this in the first place, three emails later? It's such a pointless argument about a tiny objection that can't possibly have been something you cared that much about. If you had just said "sure fine whatever", the whole issue goes away. And I see that pattern happening over and over again, both in the LHS threads, and even here now. There are people in the LHS thread complaining that when they ask you to stop contacting them, they get more messages instead. </div><div><br></div><div>So I don't think it's anything in particular. It's not the actions, or a specific email. It's that you have a pattern, and so they've become unwilling to extend you the benefit of the doubt. Everything is interpreted as negatively as possible, because you never ever back off or compromise. I'm willing to bet that's what they're talking about IRL as well. You probably got some people who felt trapped in a conversation because you refused to shut up, and ignored every obvious sign they wanted the interaction to be over. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 6:06 PM, peter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:phm@riseup.net" target="_blank">phm@riseup.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
<br>
<div>On 21/02/15 01:22, Brendan Halliday
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Peter,</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The
tone you took combined with your cherrypicked examples of
your interpretation of 'good' behaviour set several red
flags. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I've
been helping out and organising at many community
organisations over the years and it's been a constant that
the members that are the most toxic and most dangerous to
the community are the ones who:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">1.
Must always have the last word. Always.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">2.
Disagree with the stated (or sometimes poorly communicated)
expected conduct of the group</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">3.
Generally agitate for their own goals (which usually do not
match up with the organisations')</span><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> while
attempting to remain buddies with the rest of the
membership.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">So
I spent less than a minute reading your links and came
across this:</span></div>
<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
/On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 10:23:53 AM UTC, Peter
Meadows wrote:/ </span><br style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">> </span><br style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
/I don't have time to go around asking everyone which
pronouns they </span><br style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
prefer! <br>
> <br>
> I think it's funny to call people 'it'. If it upsets
them, it can come <br>
> and talk to me and I'll try to help it develop a
sense of humour. (and <br>
</div>
<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>
if it really can't do this, I'll stop calling it 'it' in
public). / </span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
What's wrong with this? I said that my first preference would be to
try and explain the humour, and that it's not nasty. And if that
could not be done, I would stop doing it.<span class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">To
me, the links you have provided have indicated that the LHS
executive have acted very clearly and with considerable
cohesion on this matter. It's also clear that they are
familiar with the Geek Social Fallacies and do not wish them
to rule their space.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">From
all indications you have provided, I can't see any </span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">actions as bullying or
seeming to be motivated by hidden reasons. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">If anything, you
should move on and perhaps re-evaluate how you handle social
interactions - because if you're not the unconstructive
member that you're portraying, then you need to work on
communicating it clearer.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Justin Corwin<br><a href="mailto:outlawpoet@gmail.com" target="_blank">outlawpoet@gmail.com</a><br><a href="http://programmaticconquest.tumblr.com" target="_blank">http://programmaticconquest.tumblr.com</a><br><a href="http://outlawpoet.tumblr.com" target="_blank">http://outlawpoet.tumblr.com</a></div></div>
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