<div dir="ltr">A hackerspace is a place where hackers hang out. Hackers are people who hang out at hackerspaces. Done! ;)<div><br></div><div>Now for a more serious answer. The thing that seems easiest for everyone to agree on is that the boundaries between the terms are fuzzy. What's more, the terms don't capture all the details about a space, so one "makerspace" might look very different from another. If your goal is to classify types of creative spaces, I suggest abandoning the hackerspace/makerspace terminology in favor or a more precise taxonomy: member/board/staff-run, volunteer/staff-operated, open/closed-membership, hardware/software/arts/crafts, etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Though if your goal is not a precise description of the organizations themselves, but to talk about perceptions and representation, it's certainly an interesting topic. The space I cofounded (i3 Detroit) has at times called itself both a hackerspace and a makerspace, depending on who we were talking to. If an audience knew what a hackerspace was, we'd call it that, otherwise many people default to "makerspace" to avoid scaring people off. But I haven't heard of anyone taking a strong stance *against* using either term to describe the space. So an interesting question might be "what is *not* a hackerspace" or "makerspace?" For instance, I wouldn't call Tech Shop a hackerspace, but I might call it a makerspace.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Related anecdote: When Dale Dougherty (Make) and Jim Newton (TechShop) visited Detroit to meet with local hacker/makers and entrepreneurs in 2009, Tech Shop's model was described as "It's all about the tools" to which i3 Detroit cofounder Nate B. replied "It's all about the community!"</div>
<div><br></div><div>Other random thought... The debate about whether hackerspaces are political has come up in this thread. To me, "hacking" implies finding a creative way around some type of limitation. In many cases, that means technological limitations, but (to me) it could also mean societal limitations. Someone with a "hacker" mindset is much more likely to question and circumvent societal and political norms. On the other hand, makerspaces seem to attract folks interested in innovating *within* those norms by honing a craft, starting a business, etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Happy hacking,</div><div>-Ed</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Crawford Comeaux <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crawford.comeaux@gmail.com" target="_blank">crawford.comeaux@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">We've spent a couple months doing research on hackerspaces/makerspaces/etc for a few months while planning our space (intro message to the list coming in next couple days). <div>
<br></div><div>One thing we've detected is what seems like a growing separation between the terms hackerspace & makerspace (mostly in Europe, currently). The two used to be interchangeable, but apparently makerspace is slowly starting to be used to describe an overcommercialized hackerspace and/or a hackerspace that's started abandoning the value of deep learning/understanding. This is one of the reasons we're going to be referring to ourselves as a hackerspace.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As for TechShop & fab lab, we've encountered examples of pretty much everything that's been said in this thread. TechShop is just a chain/brand. Fab lab is a bit broader & could refer to a brand, biz models, and spaces based on the tools they contain. </div>
<div><br></div><div>As for a hackerspace definition...good luck on trying to nail that down. It seems like the nature of hackerspaces is to keep spaces adaptable to meet any needs of its users/community as the needs develop/emerge. And in that situation, I'd say any definition has to be a pretty loose one that allows for that. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Also, I could<span></span> be talking completely out of my rear.</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div><br>On Monday, May 12, 2014, Mark Scrano <<a href="mailto:mscrano@ieee.org" target="_blank">mscrano@ieee.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I'm not saying that it's exclusively that way, but I have visited makerspaces/fablabs that have zero interest in technology related projects. They may be missing out, but their demographics may just be different.<div>
Mark S.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Al Billings <span dir="ltr"><<a>albill@openbuddha.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Obvious how? I’ve never seen a “hackerspace” that didn’t have people fabricating things or a “makerspace” that didn’t have people programming.<div>
<br></div><div><div><br><div><div>On May 12, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Mark Scrano <<a>mscrano@ieee.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"> It is obvious to me that a hackerspace has more people oriented towards the technology/programming side of things and makers/fabricators on getting their hands dirty. </span></blockquote>
</div><br></div><div><div>
Al Billings<br><a>albill@openbuddha.com</a><br><a href="http://makehacklearn.org" target="_blank">http://makehacklearn.org</a>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Edward L. Platt<div><a href="http://elplatt.com" target="_blank">http://elplatt.com</a></div><div><a href="http://civic.mit.edu/users/elplatt" target="_blank">http://civic.mit.edu/users/elplatt</a></div>
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