<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Tell me how.</div> <div style="color:black"><br>From: <span style="color:black">Sung won Lim</span> <a href="mailto:4phlebas@gmail.com">4phlebas@gmail.com</a><br>Reply: <span style="color:black">Hackerspaces General Discussion List</span> <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>Date: <span style="color:black">April 4, 2014 at 12:53:41 PM</span><br>To: <span style="color:black">Randall G. Arnold</span> <a href="mailto:randall.arnold@texrat.net">randall.arnold@texrat.net</a>, <span style="color:black">Hackerspaces General Discussion List</span> <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>Subject: <span style="color:black"> Re: [hackerspaces] Failing/failed hackerspaces <br></span></div><br> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>
<title></title>
<div dir="ltr">Well there could be something like a completely
corrupt and abusive hackerspace that earns enough money to keep the
doors open. You could always get unpaid interns make things and
then sell them/offer the process as classes without crediting
them.<br>
<br>
<br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Randall G.
Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:randall.arnold@texrat.net" target="_blank">randall.arnold@texrat.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Yeah, it's really easy to spawn tangents on this topic.
;)</div>
<div>If a space fails to appeal to visitors, yet is still
successful for the regulars, then I guess it loses its designation
as An Official Tourist Attraction. More beer for the
locals.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Seriously: if you're pleasing your target audience, yet
irritating people you didn't target (even inadvertantly), I fail to
see a problem... unless said outreach was part of the
mission. But even then, not a failure unless the
administration fails to investigate and address. Just an
opportunity (sorry, old corporate habit).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>And if pleasing visitors is ouside the mission, or is seen as
obviously more work than it's worth, then no real issue. Also
still more beer.</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left:blue 1px solid;padding-left:10px;margin-left:0px" type="cite">On April 4, 2014 at 2:41 PM Crawford Comeaux
<<a href="mailto:crawford.comeaux@gmail.com" target="_blank">crawford.comeaux@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">What about failing to be fun/appealing to visitors
from other spaces? Disregard if that also leads to hair-splitting
;)</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Randall G.
Arnold <span><<a href="mailto:randall.arnold@texrat.net" target="_blank">randall.arnold@texrat.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>That's another question that requires context. I doubt
the locals would see it as failing, even as global community
might. And not to nitpick, but failing what? I agree
with Mark: if it's open it's certainly not an operational
failure... but I can see where some might see *philosophical*
failure if it didn't meet certain conventions. And even THAT
starts up the usual hair-splitting...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It's Friday. No hair-splitting for me. ;)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Randy</div>
<div>Tarrant Makers</div>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left:blue 1px solid;padding-left:10px;margin-left:0px" type="cite">On April 4, 2014 at 2:24 PM Crawford Comeaux <
<a href="mailto:crawford.comeaux@gmail.com" target="_blank">crawford.comeaux@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Would a failing space be one that may be locally
successful, but viewed negatively in the global hackerspace
community?</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Mark
Henderson <span><<a href="mailto:mhenderson683@live.com" target="_blank">mhenderson683@live.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">I define a failed space as one who's no longer in
business. Doors closed, memberships cancelled, 100% out of
business.<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 12:50:39 -0400<br>
From: <a href="mailto:4phlebas@gmail.com" target="_blank">4phlebas@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Failing/failed hackerspaces
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Define failed hackerspace- if a nasty space keeps on chugging
along through geographical/media clout despite severe issues, is it
a successful space?<br>
<br></div>
-sung</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Jesse Krembs
<span><<a href="mailto:jessekrembs@gmail.com" target="_blank">jessekrembs@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hey Matt
<div> </div>
<div>I would argue that neither the HHH or the L0pht are good
examples of failed spaces.</div>
<div>The HHH was a residence first in my view and just happened to
be populated by hackertypes.</div>
<div>The L0pht predates the modern hackerspaces era, was private
and was a unique beast, also it didn't so much as get bought
by corporate interests and sold out to (or bought in).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3rd Ward might be better example. (makerspace).</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:35 PM, matt <span><<a href="mailto:matt@nycresistor.com" target="_blank">matt@nycresistor.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>> 1. What are some well known failed spaces to the
discussion group, and<br>
> what caused them to fail?
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>HHH ( all the things ), L0pht ( purchased by corporate
interest ), Countless tiny unheard of spaces.<br>
<br></div>
<div>
<div>> 2. Are there any spaces that are "too big to fail",
i.e. too much money is<br>
> invested in the space - so much so that it has become a
disservice to the<br>
> community instead of an asset? What are some of the
common mistakes<br>
> that spaces make that keep them from growing or
succeeding?<br>
<br></div>
</div>
<div>Noisebridge. <br>
<br></div>
<div>I'd ask you this. Is growth success? Start with
what your own metric for success is. If you are just building
a physical edifice to your own interest, you've probably already
failed. If you are trying to start a movement to support a
crusade... again you've failed. If you are just trying to
find a group of people you want to hack with... then all you need
is enough people to be happy and survive. What keeps people
from success generally, is failing to identify what their metric
for success is. Or trying to do too many things. You
can't be all things to all people. The other big one is
believing there is a community to support your goals when sometimes
there just isn't. And the last and worst... thinking you can
turn running a hackerspace into a career.</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>> 3. Has anyone taken failed models and used them as
sort of a "this is what<br>
> not to do" list? Where could I source that info?</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<a href="http://hackerspaces.org/images/8/8e/Hacker-Space-Design-Patterns.pdf" target="_blank">http://hackerspaces.org/images/8/8e/Hacker-Space-Design-Patterns.pdf</a><br>
<br></div>
<div>
<div>> 4. For people new to this industry, what are some
of the common<br>
> newcomer mistakes in starting up a makerspace/hackerspace that
you would<br>
> have liked to been made aware of so you could have avoided
them and<br>
> saved yourself a massive headache?</div>
</div>
</div>
Trust every member of your space as if they had keys to your
home. If you can't do that, you've already failed.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Mark Henderson
<span><<a href="mailto:mhenderson683@live.com" target="_blank">mhenderson683@live.com</a>></span> wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">I have some questions about failed or failing
hackerspaces and makerspaces.<br>
<br>
1. What are some well known failed spaces to the discussion
group, and what caused them to fail?
<div> </div>
<div>2. Are there any spaces that are "too big to fail", i.e.
too much money is invested in the space - so much so that it has
become a disservice to the community instead of an asset?
What are some of the common mistakes that spaces make that
keep them from growing or succeeding?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3. Has anyone taken failed models and used them as sort
of a "this is what not to do" list? Where could I source that
info?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4. For people new to this industry, what are some of the
common newcomer mistakes in starting up a makerspace/hackerspace
that you would have liked to been made aware of so you could have
avoided them and saved yourself a massive headache?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks! <span><span style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
Mark Henderson</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<br clear="all">
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<span><span style="color:#888888">--<br>
Jesse Krembs<br>
<a>802.233.7051</a></span></span></div>
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<br></div></div></span></blockquote> <div id="bloop_sign_1396641317394809088" class="bloop_sign"><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px"></span>-- <br>Al Billings<br>http://makehacklearn.org<div><br></div></div></body></html>