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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Phillip,<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>There is absolutely no need to get upset. However, there's a difference between inclusion-ist and demonstrating a problem with the use of the name by others and I will agree that I did use some terms earlier that may have been offensive and for that I do apologize. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think that it was wrong of you to make the accusation that I am "trying to have some fun" here. That is wrong on your part and I believe that you owe an apology as the language that you used on here is far beyond acceptable.</div><div><br></div><div><br>Having said that, I have asked for a clear, non-roundabout response to defining "food hacking" and why it deserves to have the term it does today. So far nobody has done so without bending the true meaning behind "hacking" and so far have demonstrated that I can call whatever I want as hacking--in your case, you can call what you posted as "language hacking" or what I am participating in here as "email hacking".</div><div><br></div><div><br>Let's have a civil conversation here and not be berating people; not doing so is being exclusionary.</div><div><br><br>Kevin Mitnick<br>(May or may not be the Kevin you think I am)<br><br><div>> From: philip.poten@gmail.com<br>> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 12:42:12 +0100<br>> To: discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org<br>> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Let's end the unnecessary joining of the words "food" and "hacking"<br>> <br>> Kevin, you're seriously annoying the shit out of me.<br>> <br>> Is it really YOU that is consistently trying to tell others how they<br>> should behave in a normative way?<br>> <br>> SERIOUSLY?<br>> <br>> https://campaign.soylent.me/soylent-free-your-body<br>> <br>> Please stop pissing around on everybody just trying to have fun and<br>> regain some sort of creativity and control over their minds and lives<br>> in this consumerist world.<br>> <br>> This is almost as annoying as the "true artists" that do not wish<br>> <craftsmanship> to be called an art.<br>> <br>> What is it with you trying to impose on the inclusionist hackerspace<br>> approach and the resulting self expression of others? Is it just the<br>> word? Then fucking buy threrealhackerspaces.org and do your thing!<br>> Nobody's stopping you! But the word does not belong to you, and all<br>> you're accomplishing is telling a lot of involved people that you<br>> think they are beneath your definition of hacker. The message was<br>> received. Now move on.<br>> <br>> Other than that, you're really not contributing *anything* with this lament.<br>> <br>> FFS.<br>> <br>> <br>> 2014-01-30 Kevin Mitnick <kevin.mitnick@outlook.com>:<br>> > And yet you have failed to define "food hacker" other than some ideals that<br>> > any person could crank out. The only reason why people tack "hacker" on to<br>> > things is to sound edgy in what would otherwise not be in the first place.<br>> > It's just to inflate one's ego so they can feel like they're out of the<br>> > mainstream when really they are just as much in it as the next person.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > If anything, defining yourself as a "food hacker" or "civic hacker" for<br>> > example is nothing more than "ego hacking" and that is loose at best.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Quite pathetic and sad to say the least.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Kevin Mitnick<br>> > (May or may not be the Kevin you think I am)<br>> ><br>> > ________________________________<br>> > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 03:32:11 -0800<br>> > From: lishevita@gmail.com<br>> > To: discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org<br>> ><br>> > Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Let's end the unnecessary joining of the words<br>> > "food" and "hacking"<br>> ><br>> > Jumping into the discussion realllllllly late, but since I didn't see my<br>> > favorite definition of hacking and since I haven't seen anyone point out how<br>> > fucked up the exclusionary definition of hacking is, I'm going to go ahead<br>> > and jump...<br>> ><br>> > So, first off, the definition of hacking that I always share with people in<br>> > my talks is the one given by the hacker Jude Milhon who was hacking from the<br>> > late 1960s until her death in 2003:<br>> ><br>> > "Hacking is the clever circumvention of imposed limits, whether imposed by<br>> > your government, your IP server, your own personality, or the laws of<br>> > physics."<br>> ><br>> > In the context of food hacking, I'd like to suggest that at least some of<br>> > the imposed limits are those of culture. Food ways are a major aspect of<br>> > culture. There is also a technical aspect of food hacking which has to do<br>> > with chemistry and physics.<br>> ><br>> > Moving on to the issue of exclusion, please remember that the ones who<br>> > limited "hacking" to unauthorized use of computers were movie makers,<br>> > journalists and politicians, especially in the hysteria after the success of<br>> > the movie War Games in the 1980s. The community of hackers has been much<br>> > wider and more diverse than that from the start.<br>> ><br>> > As for the question of whether a thing is hacking or not, do not ask only<br>> > what the activity is, but what the philosophy and intent behind the activity<br>> > may be. It's the "food hacker" or "civic hacker" or "textile hacker"<br>> > subverting a dominant paradigm? Are they pushing their area of activity<br>> > beyond the usual boundaries? Are they, in the process of doing that<br>> > activity, adding to their own knowledge and understanding of how the thing<br>> > works, having at least sometimes bent the thing so far out of shape to break<br>> > it? (For how else can you know the difference between real limits and<br>> > artificial ones?)<br>> ><br>> > Let's keep hacking food, at Noisebridge and beyond.<br>> ><br>> > - Lisha Sterling<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list<br>> > Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org<br>> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss<br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Discuss mailing list<br>> > Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org<br>> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss<br>> ><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Discuss mailing list<br>> Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org<br>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss<br></div></div> </div></body>
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