<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Assuming this is in the United States, the issue can get very tricky. <br><br></div>But let's start with culture. Not all hackerspaces are the same. The more hardware oriented spaces are certainly far more likely to have death dealing implements around in droves. A software centric space, really only runs the regular gambit of office associated risks... in short paper cuts, tripping over filing cabinets, and freak water bottle accidents.<br>
<br></div>Also some spaces are safer than others. NYC Resistor for instance is by no means kid safe. The floors chronically contain a mix of metal shavings and project scrap that would likely kill a toddler upon contact ( joking but you get the point ). There are shevles stacked precariously, and there are CNC devices that are dangerous to full blown adults. Depending on where you are in the place, you can pick some particularly grizzly modes of death or dismemberment. <br>
<br></div>Now some spaces want to be a place for kids. Some don't want to deal with the hassle. But, absolutely no one wants to see a kid get hurt for any reason. And that means that if you intend to bring kids into the space, you intend to provide an atmosphere conducive to it. That means keeping the place clean, stowing items after use, and ensuring that the place is effectively kid proofed. Not every space wants to invest in that. It's a matter of deciding whether or not that is what your community is about.<br>
<br></div>As far as your insurance and landlord go... if you are operating a hackerspace without insurance in the US, you are in my mind a fucking asshole. If someone gets hurt you are going to get sued, your landlord is going to get sued, and everyone whose name is on incorporating papers and possibly membership rosters will get sued. Especially if there is no insurance in place. And very especially if the person who got injured is a kid. If I were yer landlord and I found you operating without insurance, I'd shut you the hell down quickly. It's just plain unsafe. Don't do it.<br>
<br></div>With Insurance, that doesn't really prevent the landlord from being dragged into any injury lawsuits. Where a kid is involved he's particularly exposed because no one wants to rule against a kid for any reason. He's facing risk that you created. And that's going to be a huge problem if your space is particularly prone to creating the environments that breed injury. If you like to throw ragers at 4 in the afternoon while kids run around and play on the lather like it's a horse... then insurance or no insurance your landlord will probably burn the place down before he lets you keep doing that. In a more sane and less extreme world, I'd make sure you are in agreement with your landlord on your space being a space kids are going to be. And being in accords with local zoning laws and any other necessary regulation in that regard. Also... as per before.. covered with a nice huge liability shield.<br>
<br></div>Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Be responsible. Be aware. <br><br></div>This is a tough topic. But when you get down to it, hackerspaces are communities. If your community wants to have kids in their hackerspace, ain't no one going to stop you from making that a reality. However if you cut corners and put someone at risk aside from yourself, you are making all of us look bad. And that's not cool.<br>
<br></div>-Matt<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:13 PM, john lunger <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:justj1915@yahoo.com" target="_blank">justj1915@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><div>I would like a deep discussion about insurance, liability and kids. </div>
<div><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">We were at a great hackerspace last night and they have weekly events for kids. </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
Unfortunately the landlord goes on rampages and happened to rampage about the kids being in a common room last night in front of the kids and parents.</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
<br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">One of my daughters (11yrs ) was privy to this unfortunately and is still talking about it this morning. She is a bit worried that she won;t be able to go back to this hackerspace as she really enjoys her time there. Luckily I don't think my other kids heard it. Maybe my preschooler may have but he might have also been oblivious about the whole thing. </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
Several adults went and corralled the landlord outside to get him to calm down. My daughter says she is worried he will come back and do that again. </div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
<br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">According to the adults he was complaining about some kind of liability issue and insurance among other things. </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
I don;t think this hackerspace has looked into insurance yet or might be in the process of it right now after last nights event. </div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
<br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">Can anyone shed some light to this whole thing? </div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
What options does a hackerspace has with an unruly landlord? </div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">What can we
do bureaucratic wise to make him quiet down? </div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br>Carolyn</div> </div>
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