<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I've been following this conversation and appreciate the discussion. </span><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
In the U.S., we've formed the Space Federation -- <a href="http://schoolfactory.org/spacefed" target="_blank">http://schoolfactory.org/spacefed</a> -- which is 53 spaces and is growing. It's federated, decentralized, and since we do the taxes for everyone, we know it is also profitable--i.e., for the 23 spaces for which we act as the charity and process funds, in 2012 the ecosystem of spaces created more money than it spent.<div>
<br></div><div>We're transparent, democratic, and open--not controlled by private interests, a public charity.<br><div><br></div><div>In other countries, we've been trying to stimulate the start of more spaces through efforts like GEMSI (<a href="http://gemsi.org/" target="_blank">http://gemsi.org</a>) and in '11, went to CCC to share the story of the Space Federation and learn from other spaces what's working, what's not, and share collaboration.</div>
</div><div><br></div><div>We've been doing this since 2009 (our organization was founded in 2002), and what we've learned is:</div><div><ul><li style="margin-left:15px">It works</li><li style="margin-left:15px">We can have our autonomy and independence, and collaborate too</li>
<li style="margin-left:15px">It doesn't have to be top-down</li><li style="margin-left:15px">Spaces are financially sustainable</li><li style="margin-left:15px">Ecosystems of spaces are financially sustainable</li><li style="margin-left:15px">
We can get a lot of financial resources but not come to depend on them: in 2012, if we subtract the gifts from foundations and corporations, the spaces were <i>still</i> profitable (<a href="http://schoolfactory.org/content/space-federation-2012-financial-results">see finances from 2012</a>)</li>
</ul><div>Our goal and aim is to imagine the future in which these spaces are 'the schools'--they take the place of what we currently see / think when we say 'school' because we're pretty sure the current implementation of 'school' needs refactoring. That future is a way off, but it's getting closer and closer all the time. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I'd appreciate the chance to collaborate with <a href="http://hackerspaces.org/" target="_blank">hackerspaces.org</a> on this. We've got a healthy model in the U.S. and even though the laws and taxes are different in each nation, we can separate what changes from what stays the same and provide an active support to each other. </div>
</div><div><br></div><div style>What can we do to help? </div><div style>1. Host the site? </div><div style>2. Manage it with accountability to the community?</div><div style>3. Assume the costs?</div><div style><br></div>
<div style>Thank you.</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 3:04 PM, James Carlson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:james@schoolfactory.org" target="_blank">james@schoolfactory.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I've been following this conversation and appreciate the discussion. <div><br></div><div>In the U.S., we've formed the Space Federation -- <a href="http://schoolfactory.org/spacefed" target="_blank">http://schoolfactory.org/spacefed</a> -- which is 53 spaces and is growing. It's federated, decentralized, and since we do the taxes for everyone, we know it is also profitable--i.e., for the 23 spaces for which we act as the charity and process funds, in 2012 the ecosystem of spaces created more money than it spent.<div>
<br></div><div>We're transparent, democratic, and open--not controlled by private interests, a public charity.<br><div><br></div><div>In other countries, we've been trying to stimulate the start of more spaces through efforts like GEMSI (<a href="http://gemsi.org" target="_blank">http://gemsi.org</a>) and in '11, went to CCC to share the story of the Space Federation and learn from other spaces what's working, what's not, and share collaboration.</div>
</div><div><br></div><div>We've been doing this since 2009 (our organization was founded in 2002), and what we've learned is:</div><div><ul><li>It works</li><li>We can have our autonomy and independence, and collaborate too</li>
<li>It doesn't have to be top-down</li><li>Spaces are financially sustainable</li><li>Ecosystems of spaces are financially sustainable</li><li>We can get a lot of financial resources but not come to depend on them: in 2012, if we subtract the gifts from foundations and corporations, the spaces were <i>still</i> profitable (see attached finances dashboard)</li>
</ul><div>Our goal and aim is to imagine the future in which these spaces are 'the schools'--they take the place of what we currently see / think when we say 'school' because we're pretty sure the current implementation of 'school' needs refactoring. That future is a way off, but it's getting closer and closer all the time. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I'd appreciate the chance to collaborate with <a href="http://hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">hackerspaces.org</a> on this. We've got a healthy model in the U.S. and even though the laws and taxes are different in each nation, we can separate what changes from what stays the same and provide an active support to each other. </div>
</div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Yves Quemener <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:quemener.yves@free.fr" target="_blank">quemener.yves@free.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>> which involves admitting that none of us<br>
> knows the perfect answer - and come up with a solution that most think<br>
> will work<br>
<br>
</div>I am not sure if this will qualify as 1. or 2. but I still don't understand<br>
the problem you are trying to solve. I think I read all the messages in<br>
this discussion, and I only identified three things that could be solved by<br>
a central entity :<br>
<br>
A. centralization of legal resources (for which countries?)<br>
B. giving a Goal, an Aim and an Inspiration to the hackerspaces of the world.<br>
C. Give a sens of unity to the movement.<br>
<br>
There has been other proposals, but all the other I have seen can be or are<br>
currently solved by independent projects that it makes sense to rely on.<br>
<br>
More importantly, I see no task that any hackerspace would be willing to<br>
give money for, except maybe the legal help, but then again, the EFF may be<br>
a safer bet if you are in US. IF you are targeting hackerspaces outside US,<br>
are you ready to cover all the legal systems out there?<br>
<br>
B. requires a charismatic leader or a strong driver in an awesome project.<br>
This is a pre-requisite, you have to have it first before making a<br>
foundation or council.<br>
<br>
C. is actually doable without funds but has been attempted before. It could<br>
take the shape of a charter (maybe a modular one, a la creative commons?),<br>
that hackerspaces agree or not to follow. Fablabs actually have this sort<br>
of things.<br>
<div><br>
<br>
On 14/04/13 17:12, Sean Bonner wrote:<br>
> The way I see it we have two choices at this point.<br>
><br>
> 1. We decide to work together - which involves admitting that none of us<br>
> knows the perfect answer - and come up with a solution that most think will<br>
> work (I'm aware there is no way to ever make everyone happy) and try to<br>
> create a resource that is valuable to people interested in starting<br>
> hackerspaces as well as valuable to people already involved with them.<br>
><br>
> ~or~<br>
><br>
> 2. We continue being snarky and bashing/insulting each other.<br>
><br>
><br>
> I'm cool with either option. While I think there's massive potential for a<br>
> shared resource and I point people to the hackerspace patterns all the<br>
> time, my hackerspaces won't live or die based on anything that happens on<br>
</div>> <a href="http://hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">hackerspaces.org</a> <<a href="http://hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">http://hackerspaces.org</a>>, one of the benefits of a<br>
<div>> decentralized system such as this. And I have over 9000 hours of trolling<br>
> experience so I can just sit around laughing in everyones faces too. Either<br>
> way.<br>
><br>
> -s<br>
><br>
><br>
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