<div dir="ltr"><div>The Short:<br></div><div><br>If you guys want, I can take over ownership of the domain and host it.<br><br></div><div>I figure there's more than a few people willing to help out with that.<br><br></div>
<div>But I'll make the offer anyways.<br><br></div><div>The Long:<br></div><div><br></div><div>5 years ago <a href="http://hackerspaces.org">hackerspaces.org</a> was new and wonderful, and the community was alive with excitement. Today, there are more hackers / makers / crafters / artists / scientists / engineers / zomg etc than ever before helping build hackerspace communities across the globe.<br>
<br></div><div>Yet, <a href="http://hackerspaces.org">hackerspaces.org</a> is fundamentally nothing more than a map of existing hackerspaces and this mailing list. It could be so much more than that. Today Makerspaces is making a play on being that more for hackerspaces. But it's not an impartial effort. It's got a specific financial interest and it's owned by O'Rly. We're the communities resourc and we're not acting like it.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>And while there have been some attempts to grow a blog, and grow out some other feature sets. Nothing has really caught on. I think ultimately the problem is that the <a href="http://hackerspaces.org">hackerspaces.org</a> site and resources are privately owned. I think disputes like this and small working groups are the reason that things fail. This "all someone needs to do is ask." approach is unacceptable to those of us who don't really want to ask to help. We want to just solve problems and let it be reviewed and accepted as needed. More continuous integration less QQ.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Generally I am of the opinion that what is needed is a more open peer reviewed contribution system. Leadership and Stewardship irk me. Hackers don't need governance. And I am more than willing to have my public image besmirched without getting butt hurt as your figurehead to blame for all things. However, the resources that need to be operated to run <a href="http://hackerspaces.org">hackerspaces.org</a> require investment, and someone or something needs to be the 'owner' of things.<br>
<br></div><div>Maybe what we need is a foundation. But a foundation that's designed to service the community and not vice versa. One where leadership is disassociated from development. Where the leaders exist for the sole purpose of safe guarding the public image of the org and promoting hackerspaces while simply allowing and supporting the individual contributors.<br>
<br>We've built a similar model over the past couple of years at OpenStack. However there's been a bit too much corporate stewardship there IMHO. We can do better here. <br><br></div><div>Anyways. If you want, you can pass me the domain and I'll work to setup a public foundation that can exist to service the needs of the hackerspaces community in an open manner with everyones input. I've got a pretty solid record of running the nycr:microcontrollers list which has similar traffic to this list. I've always been pretty hands off beyond stopping the obvious abuses. And open about actions taken. And most importantly, I have no real desire to be some fucking hero god king of hackerspaces to whom you all must pay homage. And if people want to start drama with me, all they will find is directions to submitting changes via gerrit or some other review system. <br>
<br></div><div>I'd rather you didn't actually give me ownership to setup a foundation as that would eat up the last remaining morsels of spare time that I have. It would also undoubtedly cost me money I'd rather spend on plane tickets and hardware. But, as it seems you guys are having some trouble with public image and governance. I am willing to take the hit. As I said before, I think this site can be more. And I think the community is awesome and deserves more.<br>
<br></div><div>Let it not be said I did not stand up and offer to shoulder the burden. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Best of luck either way. Sick and tired of drama as always. <br><br></div><div>-Matt<br></div><div><br>
<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Paul Bohm <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bohmps@gmail.com" target="_blank">bohmps@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I apologize for the way I addressed this. I just don't know how to deal with this.</div><div><br>
</div><div>Can we please find some solution that doesn't involve me and Astera fighting either in private or public?</div>
<div><br></div><div>I don't want to be involved in running the site, or in arbitraging power struggles. I'd still be glad to hang out with y'all and drink Club Mate.</div><div><br></div><div>
Peace</div><div><br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Paul Bohm <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bohmps@gmail.com" target="_blank">bohmps@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">Ok that was harsh. Sorry</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">
Johannes bringing my mother into this, plus people messaging me pushed my buttons.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">But the thing is. I'd like to hand over the domains and keys to <a href="http://hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">hackerspaces.org</a> to some entity that can take care of it. Anyone want to start a foundation with a defined charta?</div>
<div><div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Paul Bohm <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bohmps@gmail.com" target="_blank">bohmps@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I've just received messages suggesting how I should respond to straw-man's, and how it's important.<div><br></div><div>But it's simpler than that, I've given up the domain <a href="http://metalab.at" target="_blank">metalab.at</a> and given it to Metalab many years ago because I knew it would be in good hands there. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Despite moving to a different country and being less involved with the scene, I've held on to the domains <a href="http://hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">hackerspaces.org</a> <a href="http://hackerspaces.com" target="_blank">hackerspaces.com</a> <a href="http://hackerspaces.net" target="_blank">hackerspaces.net</a> because there were some very ugly power struggles that I didn't speak up about at the time.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'm no longer as actively involved with the hackerspaces scene and I've been wanting to hand over the reigns including domains to people who are capable of cooperation for years. This hasn't been possible, and now even doing maintenance on the site causes backstabbing.</div>
<div><br></div><div>A mentor told me many years ago that if people say ugly things in private that they'd rather not hear said in public, the answer to that is to communicate in public even if it makes you look bad too. I'm sticking to that.</div>
<div><br></div><div>-enki</div><div><br></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Tobias Wolter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:towo@koeln.ccc.de" target="_blank">towo@koeln.ccc.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br>
<br>
Paul Bohm <<a href="mailto:bohmps@gmail.com" target="_blank">bohmps@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>And I remember very well that night at CCC Congress 2008, where you<br>
>told me<br>
>how much you enjoyed the attention you get, because you've set things<br>
>up in<br>
>such a way that they have to go through you to accomplish things. I<br>
>told<br>
>you back then that's at odds with a philosophy of participation.<br>
<br>
</div>Unverifiable statements of private conversations wherein you accuse someone of being in it only for the attention - after going public with an outcry of revoked privileges you admit to not using, stating that the person doing that is not as "cool" as you are? Interesting.<br>
<br>
Then we should consider that this might be an attempt to sway public opinion because you are trying to insinuate gender-based prejudices? That's rich.<br>
<br>
And not very becoming in the spirit of encouraging participation.<br>
<br>
-towo<br>
<span><font color="#888888">--<br>
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.<br>
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