<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Lisha,<br><br>Thank you for sharing that story, and that panel talk - I've bookmarked it to watch this evening. I've also witnessed such 'hacker witch hunts' often targeting clothes-hackers and foodhackers - people doing really innovative things with some of our more fundamental technologies. Matt's suggestion that he would 'wear out his welcome' by integrating arduinos into his crafts in a knitting circle is baffling, since the creative application/tinkering of any technology is imho exactly what hackerspaces are about. Here is a <a href="http://sudoroom.org/art-murmur-clothes-hacking/">link to our clothes-hacking night at Sudo Room</a>, integrating LEDs and electronic thread, if anyone feels inspired. We don't have a kitchen yet, but we're really excited about our <a href="http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Biology">komucha and beer brew setups, cheese-making, and upcoming mushroom grow setup</a> also. <br>
</div><br></div>At Sudo Room, our core values are inclusivity, transparency, and <a href="http://sudoroom.org/definitions/">open-mindedness regarding what a "hacker" is and could be</a>. This includes hacking our city's government by coming up with participatory budgeting models and tools for working with open data; it includes community radio stations and Oakland Wiki, tools which endeavor to document and give voice to our surrounding community (rather than insulating in a little hacker bubble); it includes sewing machines, CNC routers, 3D printers and bike repair stations - and creating a space where, rather than telling folks who come to our space to make things that what they're doing isn't "real hacking," we ask if they'd like to teach a workshop so we can all learn a new skill.<br>
<br></div>That's what it means to be welcoming, which is one viable strategy for improving the demographic diversity of hackerspaces. <br><br></div>Just my $0.02,<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>
Jenny<br>
<a href="http://jennyryan.net/" target="_blank">http://jennyryan.net</a><br>
<a href="http://thepyre.org/" target="_blank">http://thepyre.org</a><br>
<a href="http://thevirtualcampfire.org/" target="_blank">http://thevirtualcampfire.org</a><br>
<a href="http://technomadic.tumblr.com/" target="_blank">http://technomadic.tumblr.com</a><br>
<br>
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`<br>
<div>
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."<br>
-Laurie Anderson<br>
<br>
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."<br>
-Hannah Arendt<br>
<br>
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."<br>
-Stéphane Mallarmé<br>
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`</div>
</div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Matt Joyce <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matt@nycresistor.com" target="_blank">matt@nycresistor.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Lisha Sterling <<a href="mailto:lishevita@gmail.com">lishevita@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Sorry for the delay in response from me directly. Yesterday I was in transit<br>
> and, while I was able to read the emails on my phone at the Newark airport,<br>
> I didn't feel like writing a response on the phone.<br>
><br>
> I'd like to say thank you to Michel Gallant for making me laugh out loud and<br>
> hoot, "You tell 'em" in the food court at the airport. :)<br>
<br>
</div>I don't think you should be promoting juvenile language and the<br>
projection of the very thing you are trying to combat. While it's<br>
easy to indulge in a revenge fantasy, commentary such as this debases<br>
every salient point you may have and erodes your own platform for<br>
contribution. Also it can be offensive to some.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Matt, yes, this may have come off as annoying to you, but I hope that you'll<br>
> understand that some piece of Michel's response hit the spot. One of the<br>
> reasons that women get sick of dealing with the issues of "feminism" and<br>
> "inclusion of women" is that we explain what the problem is and then have to<br>
> re-explain along with thorough defenses for each position we have taken.<br>
> Your response to me put me in exactly that situation.<br>
<br>
</div>That by the way is not something that annoys just women. It annoys<br>
all of us. But it is also a necessary thing if you intend to discuss<br>
an issue and attempt to address it. Suck as it may be, I think it's<br>
probably worth suffering through. Heck I suffered through the<br>
juvenile remarks, because I thought this conversation had some real<br>
merit. I have been very pleased with the full discussion we've had as<br>
a result. I hope you take the time to read the full thread if you<br>
haven't already.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Sam Ley gave as good an answer to your questions as I could probably put<br>
> forward myself when he said,<br>
> "Regarding shared interests: Hackerspaces, almost by definition, have very<br>
> wide interest levels, and theoretically, new interests among active members<br>
> is taken as an opportunity to learn something new, not an "outside" activity<br>
> to be scorned. Knitting is a form of making that is very practical and<br>
> interesting, involves math and patterns, and is connected to a long history<br>
> of craftsmanship. If you didn't already know that the hobby is mostly women,<br>
> you'd assume that most hackerspace types would be interested in learning how<br>
> to do it, in the same way they happily take up microcontrollers, bicycles,<br>
> etc. Why would a group that tends to think of an opportunity to learn a new<br>
> making skill as a good thing all of a sudden think it was a bad thing?"<br>
<br>
</div>I believe I've responded to that point in detail. My last email on<br>
this thread I believe is highly relevant to rebuking that argument at<br>
least in part. I recommend reading it if you have not already.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> The only thing that I can add to that is to say that I did state in my<br>
> original story that the knitting club had been a sort of gateway drug for a<br>
> number of women to get involved with the hackerspace beyond just the<br>
> knitting and that the bad blood around the issue of knitting not being "real<br>
> hacking" and other such derogatory statements led to those same women<br>
> *leaving* the hackerspace. (Luckily, at least some of them left *that*<br>
> hackerspace, but not the community as a whole, as I also stated in my<br>
> previous email.)<br>
<br>
</div>Not being there it's hard for me to get a feel for the event. But, in<br>
general I have no real problem with a space excluding a group of<br>
people because their core values don't match up. I'd love to discuss<br>
that further with the list.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Interestingly, I watched the Queer Geeks Panel at CCCongress from 2011<br>
> yesterday which touched on many of the same issues. There was even a<br>
> specific reference to how sometimes exclusion comes in the form of spaces<br>
> declaring that some forms of hacking/making aren't "real hacking" because<br>
> only woodwork and soldering and software are real hacking. The conversation<br>
> is well worth a watch or listen if you haven't checked it out already.<br>
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6c9Eg_IA9w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6c9Eg_IA9w</a><br>
<br>
</div>I might view it later as time allows. I'll let you know what I think<br>
If / when I do.<br>
<br>
In general I think people tend to oversimplify complex issues and that<br>
does no one any good.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
-Matt<br>
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