<div dir="ltr">"Hi, I'm a man and here's why your complaint is not legitimate"<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Matt Joyce <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matt@nycresistor.com" target="_blank">matt@nycresistor.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I don't see a knitting groups lack of jive with a hackerspace<br>
community as being a gender bias.<br>
<br>
For instance, at Noisebridge a continued point of protest I've heard<br>
before is the people who come in solely to use the kitchen.<br>
<br>
If a sub group within the community is not really jiving with the<br>
greater community it's really not necessarily a bias built upon<br>
gender. it sounds like ( from my reading ) that it was more of a lack<br>
of shared interests.<br>
<br>
And that can be problematic in either direction. If I were to show up<br>
with 3 of my good friends ( male or female ) at a knitting circle and<br>
starting soldering arduinos into the scarves / sweaters / awesome<br>
socks / I was knitting there's a good chance that over time I would<br>
wear out my welcome with the rest of the knitting circle.<br>
<br>
While I am all for identifying areas where people can be made to feel<br>
more comfortable, I am also all for not trying to fit square blocks<br>
into round holes. If two communities don't share common interests,<br>
they will likely not share space well. Trying to change that seems a<br>
futile effort to me.<br>
<br>
And, while there are those that do transcend multiple groups, that<br>
does not mean that those groups will be able to jive.<br>
<br>
Curious why you thought it was related to the gender of the knitting<br>
group members over the potential lack of shared interests?<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Lisha Sterling <<a href="mailto:lishevita@gmail.com">lishevita@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson <<a href="mailto:myself@telcodata.us">myself@telcodata.us</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> on paper our membership is about 80% male, but if you look at the people<br>
>> who actually show up and participate, it's a lot more even -- roughly 60/40<br>
>> most of the time.<br>
><br>
><br>
> It sounds like you have a great space there!<br>
><br>
> Last year at SpaceCamp, an unconference for hacker and maker spaces run by<br>
> School Factory, we had an informal poll of the founders and facilitators<br>
> there to see what the gender makeup was. Despite the fact that there were<br>
> about 30% women at the conference, it turned out that the membership of<br>
> hackerspaces tended to run closer to 90/10 with a few notable exceptions. A<br>
> couple of the women there spoke directly to the fact that they were made to<br>
> feel unwelcome at some hackerspaces even as the hackerspace *said* that they<br>
> were being gender-blind.<br>
><br>
> An example that I can think of off the top of my head is how at one mid-west<br>
> hackerspace, a woman started a knitting group that brought in a lot of other<br>
> women. Some of those women became involved in other areas of the hacker<br>
> space, but not all of them did. However, *some* of the men in the<br>
> hackerspace continually berated and badmouthed the knitting group,<br>
> complaining that it was taking up space that should have been used for<br>
> "real" hacking like woodwork, metalwork, programming and electronics. The<br>
> knitting group wasn't forced to stop, but the discomfort from the way that<br>
> they were treated meant that fewer women wanted to come, not only to the<br>
> knitting group, but to other functions as well. The knitting group died, and<br>
> the hackerspace was left with only a couple of female members (one of which<br>
> went on to become a facilitator at another hackerspace).<br>
><br>
> I agree that the way to get future women into the hackerspaces is to get<br>
> their parents in today. We all need role models. Are parents are our first<br>
> role models. The other adults in the spaces we frequent as a child (school,<br>
> scouts, daycare, hackerspace, etc) are very important as well.<br>
><br>
> There is another issue that needs to be addressed, and that is making sure<br>
> that your hackerspace is an open and welcoming place to all: women, gays,<br>
> transgendered people, people of different faiths, or colors, or shapes, or<br>
> sizes...<br>
><br>
> There is a lot of work going on in this area at a lot of hackerspaces and<br>
> that is really fantastic. Be aware, though, that you might not be aware of<br>
> the issues facing any minority in your space. Sometimes you can find out by<br>
> asking. Sometimes you can't. An of course, if you don't know that there is a<br>
> problem, it's pretty much impossible to fix it. But when someone does speak<br>
> up, hear them out and see what can be done.<br>
><br>
> As for women not wanting to talk to the press about being a woman in a<br>
> hackerspace, there may be several reasons for that. 1) It's really awesome<br>
> at your space and they don't see a point. In which case you should maybe<br>
> encourage them to speak to the press and say exactly that, since it will<br>
> help women who feel timid about joining *any* hackerspace more likely to<br>
> show up. 2) They are sick of saying the same things over and over to the<br>
> press, being misrepresented and painted as either a victim or a hero or some<br>
> other archetype rather than as a person who hangs out at a hackerspace. 3)<br>
> They really don't like anything that smacks of personal advertising. "Get my<br>
> name in the paper? Ick! No thank you!!" 4-infinity) I can't possibly know<br>
> all the other reasons...<br>
><br>
> - Lisha<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> <a href="http://www.alwayssababa.com/" target="_blank">http://www.alwayssababa.com/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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