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Remind me again why I want guns in my hackerspace?
</div><div><br></div><div>I say this as someone who grew up shooting with hunting family too.</div>
<div><div><br></div><div>-- </div><div>Al Billings</div><div>http://www.openbuddha.com</div><div>http://makehacklearn.org</div><div><br></div></div>
<p style="color: #A0A0A8;">On Monday, January 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:</p>
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<span><div><div><div>Because there is, in general, absolutely ZERO reason to think that</div><div>said single-use tool</div><div>would be directed at you, or even used at all. The truth is, at</div><div>least in the US, far less than</div><div>one half of one percent of civilian firearms are ever used in the</div><div>commission of a crime, much</div><div>less a homicide. And while everybody rants about the "gun violence"</div><div>problem, people conveniently</div><div>overlook two facts: 1. mass shootings are statistically rare to the</div><div>point of being nothing more than</div><div>noise in the signal. You're approximately as likely to be killed by a</div><div>lightning strike as to be killed in</div><div>a mass shooting. 2. Of the firearms deaths that *do* happen a</div><div>significant percentage are suicide, or involve</div><div>gang members / drug users killing / robbing each other. So, unless</div><div>you routinely have drug deals going down</div><div>in your space, or you invite the local Crips or Bloods chapter into</div><div>visit, it's absolutely ridiculous to be deathly</div><div>afraid of a firearm carried by a run-of-the-mill, law-abiding citizen.</div><div> Even more so if they have a concealed</div><div>carry permit, because the people who go to the effort to get their CCW</div><div>permits are even less likely to use their</div><div>firearms to commit a crime.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Phil</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Michel Gallant <<a href="mailto:sfxman@gmail.com">sfxman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>I was addressing Pete's equivocation of guns with other tools. A gun is a</div><div>tool for ending lives. Why is it insane to be afraid of having that</div><div>dangerous, single-use tool at a hackerspace?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Phillip Rhodes <<a href="mailto:motley.crue.fan@gmail.com">motley.crue.fan@gmail.com</a>></div><div>wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><br></div><div>If that were true, then how could anyone ever use a drill press, band</div><div>saw, lathe, etc.</div><div>I think having a healthy-respect for tools is one thing, but being</div><div>*afraid* of them is quite</div><div>something else. But maybe we're just debating semantics?</div><div><br></div><div>At any rate, all tools can be dangerous and deserve to be used with care</div><div>and</div><div>the proper precautions. In that regard, how is a pistol any different</div><div>from a band-saw?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Phil</div><div><br></div><div>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Michel Gallant <<a href="mailto:sfxman@gmail.com">sfxman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>Being afraid of tools that can rip your fingers off isn't insane, it's</div><div>healthy. You are insane to claim otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Mark Atwood <<a href="mailto:me@mark.atwood.name">me@mark.atwood.name</a>></div><div>wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><br></div><div>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Pete Prodoehl <<a href="mailto:raster@gmail.com">raster@gmail.com</a>></div><div>wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><br></div><div>Here's a quick question for US-based hacker/makerspaces... Do you</div><div>have a</div><div>firearms ban at your space, and if so, what are some of the reasons</div><div>behind</div><div>the decision?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We don't have a rule at our space. Our space is a member-oriented</div><div>space, no "general public" except as guests of members or as visitors</div><div>to specific private events.</div><div><br></div><div>If such a rule was proposed, I would argue strongly against it. If</div><div>someone is a legal owner/carrier of a firearm, if we can't trust them</div><div>with their gun, we can't trust them with all the tools *either*.</div><div><br></div><div>More generally, if someone in a makerspace is "afraid" of guns, that's</div><div>insane. They should be afraid of all the other tools too.</div><div><br></div><div>..m</div><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div></div></blockquote><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div></div></blockquote><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div></div></div></span>
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