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On 11/29/11 10:19 PM, Ricky Ng-Adam wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOAMTYR_Og2cyo8Zx_wAyFg4qVjW-a+8Tu4zEuBt_5Bke4G-Fw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Hello Al!<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Al Jigen
Billings <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:albill@openbuddha.com">albill@openbuddha.com</a>></span>
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I'm also on the e-mail lists for a number of other
hackerspaces and this is a debate, on small scale, that many
of them are having on their own. The DoD money is being
discussed quite a bit. So far, I think everyone has made
pretty much the same observations that I've made here and
decided it was money best left on the table. Maybe you and
your space feel different but I know of no one who has
actually applied for the DoD money.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Oh, you're going to love this then:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://xinchejian.com/2011/11/11/final-100yss-proposal-delivered-to-darpa/">http://xinchejian.com/2011/11/11/final-100yss-proposal-delivered-to-darpa/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...or maybe not! And to say that it all got its start from
an Hackerspace in China too... <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Oh that's just great. :-)<br>
<br>
I laughed out loud when I saw it was a Chinese hackerspace sending
it (though I recognize it has non-Chinese hackers involved). The
first concrete proposal I've seen and it isn't even within America.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOAMTYR_Og2cyo8Zx_wAyFg4qVjW-a+8Tu4zEuBt_5Bke4G-Fw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>I actually had a similar discussion with Mitch who had
second thoughts on being part of the proposal. We had included
him (with some reservations on his part at the time) in the
RFC answer but also the RFP answer without seeking further
permission... so no reflection on his actual position on the
issue. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is my understanding now is that Mitch strongly opposes
these kind of grants and argued with me to reconsider. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I have no knowledge of Mitch's politics but from what I know of him
personally, I am not surprised if he has reservations (much more
politely spoken than mine).<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOAMTYR_Og2cyo8Zx_wAyFg4qVjW-a+8Tu4zEuBt_5Bke4G-Fw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>This is what I said to him in an email reply where he
persuasively argued against working with DARPA:</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
[...cut...]<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOAMTYR_Og2cyo8Zx_wAyFg4qVjW-a+8Tu4zEuBt_5Bke4G-Fw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>I still stand by that and I believe the benefits
outweight the harm in this case, especially if we focus our
efforts on space commercialization, long-term sustainability
and self-sufficiency technology projects and if the 100YSS
organization remains independent and global hackerspaces
led.</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>And this is why I still think applying for that DARPA money
was the right thing to do...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Flame on,</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Nah, I'm not going to flame you. At least your honest and direct
about your thinking. I strongly disagree.<br>
<br>
Listen, I don't think any one specific project is necessarily
reeking of evil. I'm more concerned about it becoming acceptable,
over time, to do projects sponsored by militaries, and the potential
corrosive or co-opting effects on what is, right now, a bottom up,
grass roots movement of hackers, makers, etc. to do shit for their
own reasons and how they decide to do it. I don't want to see us all
absorbed into existing institutions, especially ones with blood on
their hands or which support violence and the harming of other
beings.<br>
<br>
Al<br>
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