Nick pretty much covered it. We don't think we could pay back an investment as a non profit, even more unlikely with a return.<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Nick Farr <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nick@hackerspaces.org">nick@hackerspaces.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">It actually gets tricky. I'd advise getting a lawyer to guide you through the process, but it is
very possible for Non-Profits to handle a transaction like this.<br>
<br>
One possible way of doing the NYCR plan within a 501(c)(3) is to have an
"investor group" purchase the machine as a partnership, then resell the
machine on an installment basis back to the 501(c)(3).<br>
<br>
The major hurdles are insuring that the agreement doesn't create an "excess benefit transaction" for "disqualified persons". (Google those terms for more info.)<br><br>In short, those in the investor group, if they're involved with governance of the space, should recuse themselves from any vote or participation in the space's decision to proceed. Those who authorize a loan situation as follows should have no tangible interest or risk in the machine itself.<br>
<br>There are lots of ways to make something like this happen, it's just a matter of following the proper guidance.<br><font color="#888888"><br><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Nick Farr<br>
<a href="http://nickfarr.org/" target="_blank">http://nickfarr.org</a><br>+1 202 630-3277<br>D762E03B</span></span></font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Carlyn Maw <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:carlynorama@gmail.com" target="_blank">carlynorama@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
Hey Tim,<br>
<br>
How did your not-for-profit status get in the way exactly?<br>
Non-profits can lease equipment, have a positive cash flow, etc, I<br>
thought. Just curious where y'all ran aground - in case we're about to<br>
make the same mistake!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<font color="#888888">--C<br>
</font><div><div></div><div><br>
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Tim Saylor <<a href="mailto:tim.saylor@gmail.com" target="_blank">tim.saylor@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I put together that same exact plan for PSOne but our non-profit status got<br>
> in the way. In order to pay back investors someone would have to assume all<br>
> the risk and take charge of making the laser profitable personally. That<br>
> was a bit too high a hurdle for us. I'd love to find out that there's a way<br>
> to make it work though, if anyone knows more about non-profits than I do<br>
> (which shouldn't be hard).<br>
> Tim<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM, bre pettis <<a href="mailto:brepettis@gmail.com" target="_blank">brepettis@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I will also donate on kickstarter to any hackerspace wanting to get a<br>
>> lasercutter. I recommend getting a non-chinese knockoff brand. Get the<br>
>> biggest one you can afford!<br>
>><br>
>> It would be a nice sell if your hackerspace could also say something like,<br>
>> "we've pulled together 8k and need another 12k."<br>
>><br>
>> At NYCR, we had 20 people become LAZZZOR investors and each put in between<br>
>> 500 and 5000 dollars to get 20k together and get a nice epilog 35 mini and<br>
>> blower system. We charged for use of our laser until the money was paid back<br>
>> to the LAZZZOR investors. If I could go back, I wish we had bought the 120<br>
>> watt 24x36 machine...<br>
>><br>
>> It really is a wonderful tool! (It also is the reason we were able to<br>
>> create MakerBot)<br>
>><br>
>> Bre<br>
>><br>
>> MakerBot Industries<br>
>> <a href="http://makerbot.com" target="_blank">http://makerbot.com</a><br>
>> Recent Press:<br>
>> <a href="http://blogs.forbes.com/davidewalt/2011/01/07/the-makerbot-is-best-at-ces/" target="_blank">http://blogs.forbes.com/davidewalt/2011/01/07/the-makerbot-is-best-at-ces/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:43 AM, I.T. Daniher <<a href="mailto:explodingmind@gmail.com" target="_blank">explodingmind@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> What about "Lasersaur"? "DIY Desktop CNC Machine"? Both are currently<br>
>>> funded kickstarter projects involving the creation of an open-source laser<br>
>>> cutter.<br>
>>> -itdnhr<br>
>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 02:36, tetsu yatsu <<a href="mailto:tetsuharu@gmail.com" target="_blank">tetsuharu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Not sure if you're speaking from personal experience or just trollin',<br>
>>>> but the only loss is a loss in confidence.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Sounds like you already know about the whole kickstarter<br>
>>>> 'all-or-nothing' deal, so I won't proselytize about that.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> If you're willing to try again, might maybe you could phrase it a little<br>
>>>> differently :). We made some stupid flyers that we distributed to all the<br>
>>>> local college campuses, and had a silly story about how we were going to<br>
>>>> decrease the out-of-control secret agent population.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> We could help you make flyers if it's holding you up?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:25 AM, Tim Saylor <<a href="mailto:tim.saylor@gmail.com" target="_blank">tim.saylor@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Well, the worst that will happen is you won't have a laser cutter but<br>
>>>>> you've already cashed in your chips with whoever you convinced to go<br>
>>>>> "donate" once and now they'll be less inclined to "donate" for your second<br>
>>>>> try even though they haven't really donated yet. Kickstarter is a great<br>
>>>>> tool but you should put some thought into your proposal before kicking it<br>
>>>>> off.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:17 AM, tetsu yatsu <<a href="mailto:tetsuharu@gmail.com" target="_blank">tetsuharu@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://www.kickstarter.com/start" target="_blank">https://www.kickstarter.com/start</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Now I may just be high off sublimated acrylic fumes, but I love our<br>
>>>>>> lab's laser cutter and I want everyone to have this chance. I cut out 15<br>
>>>>>> Hudson-CI logos to entice people at my work to buy into continuous<br>
>>>>>> integration, 8 stupid keychain things, and I couldn't help but fill the<br>
>>>>>> sheet with little rockets that say 'derp' on them. Now I have 2 dozen 'derp'<br>
>>>>>> rockets. And I'm cutting out a big wooden Github Octocat made by our member<br>
>>>>>> JohnBentCope, which my girlfriend thinks is adorable, and was a big hit at<br>
>>>>>> the MagicRuby conference.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I want everyone to have a laser cutter.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> If you start a kickstarter for getting a laser cutter, I will donate.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> There's the link. Doesn't cost anything. Just do it.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Worst that'll happen is you'll not get a laser cutter, which is where<br>
>>>>>> you are now.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Come on.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I got my pocket book out. Let's get you a laser cutter.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>