<p>Jake I will readily admit your skill as a master troll.</p>
<p>And I really do want to know how you plan to argue that the fall of the soviet union and consequently the berlin wall... was non violent.</p>
<p>Really, I'm truly impressed if you have a coherent argument that supports that assertion. I would love to make us of such an argument at later points if possible.</p>
<p>Also</p>
<p>/troll<br>
On Dec 10, 2010 5:20 PM, "Jacob Appelbaum" <<a href="mailto:jacob@appelbaum.net">jacob@appelbaum.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On 12/10/2010 04:13 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:<br>
> > To the "revolutionaries" and "activists" of the world. If you are going to<br>
> > revolt... bloody revolt already. Stop threatening to do it and just get it<br>
> > over with already.<br>
> ><br>
> > Standing around with a sign, and ddosing mastercard is not a revolt. A<br>
> > revolt is a group of guys with assault weapons siezing territory and<br>
> > shooting otherwise would be authority figures. Unless you are willing to go<br>
> > kill people, and probably yourself in the process.... by all means stop<br>
> > pretending anything done is somehow analogous to revolt.<br>
> ><br>
> > It's not. Until you have rendered the application of law a functional<br>
> > impossibility, all that you are is either a worthless protestor or a<br>
> > criminal. That's reality. Cold and hard.<br>
> ><br>
> > Sorry if you delusional belief in your revolutionary hat is challenged by<br>
> > that.<br>
><br>
> Hi Matt,<br>
><br>
> We generally disagree but I feel like someone on the list should make a<br>
> reasonable reply to your unreasonable sentiment. I might be the only<br>
> person on the list that feels this way and so I speak only for myself.<br>
><br>
> I'm not too shocked by what seems to be a total lack of understanding of<br>
> global or even localized political history. Your desire for violence is<br>
> disgusting and shows a complete lack of understanding that there is a<br>
> viable alternative.<br>
><br>
> Non-violent protest has changed quite a lot in the world; it has brought<br>
> women the right to vote, it has ended wars, it has allowed elected<br>
> representatives to block votes that would otherwise pass.<br>
><br>
> If you believe that non-violent protest hasn't changed anything, you<br>
> clearly didn't hear that the Berlin wall fell in the late 80s, nor did<br>
> you notice that Gandhi helped to free India, nor did you pay credit to<br>
> MLK who helped desegregate and bring equality to a racist United States.<br>
><br>
> The list of positive non-violent change goes on and on. A lack of<br>
> understanding on this topic does not invalidate the merit of non-violent<br>
> protest.<br>
><br>
> While DDOS is pretty lame, it has a measurable economic impact. One can<br>
> quantify scientifically the impact that these protests have on the<br>
> systems and companies being targeted. To suggest it has no impact is to<br>
> deny the facts at hand. Many of those targeted entities have<br>
> specifically claimed availability problems and that translates directly<br>
> into fiscal impact. So by the targeted companies own admissions, it is<br>
> an impactful, even if limited economic protest. This isn't so different<br>
> from protests that blocked entry to buildings in terms of impact. The<br>
> emotional considerations may be different but that isn't the sole way to<br>
> judge the impact of a protest.<br>
><br>
> Additionally, it has the entire world talking. That isn't to be discounted.<br>
><br>
> The events happening now are politically on par with the Berlin Wall<br>
> falling and if you don't see it, it's probably because you're not really<br>
> paying attention. Or you don't understand how the rest of the world<br>
> views the United States. I'm guessing both by your generally rageful,<br>
> vitriolic and uninformed nature.<br>
><br>
> But perhaps I'm mistake and you actually acknowledge all of that stuff<br>
> but just think violence is better. If that's the case, I guess we'll<br>
> have to agree to disagree.<br>
><br>
> All the best,<br>
> Jake<br>
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</p>