<p>To a certain degree, I agree with that anti beurocracy sentiment. </p>
<p>Heck I am now working closely with a government agency that I have no affiliation with whatsoever and must state ten times a day.</p>
<p>There is certainly the fear of "state run" and therefore ripped to shreds by pisspot politicos. </p>
<p>I hardly expect our current level of political capacity to repeat the works that created the library system, for instance.</p>
<p>However, the existence of a government tm analogous infrastructure would clear up legal, financial, and engineering concerns that many of the more established hackerspaces are beginning to run into, and has proven to be something of an issue in other arenas... such as bio/chem hacking.</p>
<p>The way I see it... any interest is good interest. And far more importantly, if we are now getting enough interest that politicians are moving to ride upon our cresting waves of public exposure... </p>
<p>firstly hell yeah that's great exposure compared to zomg turrorist <br>
dens sprouting up across suburbia protect yer kids.</p>
<p>Secondly, we need to cowboy up and get involved in making sure we continue to promote the stuff we've done that has worked, and be on the look out for mistakes.</p>
<p>Generally I am vehemently anti politics concerning hackerspaces and this list. I have been outspoken on this. But, we do try to avoid running afoul of fire / building safety codes. We do work with our local community including state / federal / private enterprises such as museums, and libraries. We sometimes have no choice but to participate. </p>
<p>If the US government is looking to pilot a fab lab style program we should be inviting our local representatives out to sit down and get a real understanding of what we do, how we do it, and how we think they can best serve our needs. This is to ensure that these guys are working with us, and far more importantly... not working blindly as they usually do. </p>
<p>As I said, not something I would usually be for. But if this starts moving forward... hell maybe even now... there's not much of an option left to us. We've all invested in these communities heavily and they mean a lot to us. More than that, they do tremendous good. We need to act as stewards of the knowledge we've acquired. That means making sure it spreads where it needs to be, not just to whomever reaches out to us.</p>
<p>I can't believe I just wrote that. I think I am going to have to drink the pain away.</p>
<p>God, I despise politicians.</p>
<p>-Matt Joyce</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 23, 2010 4:17 PM, "john arclight" <<a href="mailto:arclight@gmail.com">arclight@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> So has the hacker scene gone soft lately? I though that the whole<br>
> reason we spend our own money to build these things is because we want<br>> to make our own rules. We don't like our bosses looking over our<br>> shoulders and telling us that everything we make is property of the<br>
> company. And we're not really crazy about regulations, mandates, etc<br>> that we need to comply with in order to do our projects. Any time<br>> government wants give you something, my experience has been that there<br>
> are usually some strings attached.<br>> <br>> I am thinking back to the 1990s, when thousands of people on<br>> unemployment started showing up at Novell and Microsoft classes, due<br>> to new laws requiring them to attend training in order to keep their<br>
> benefits. While it assuredly helped some people find jobs, many of the<br>> people who do well in those kind of programs are already<br>> self-motivated. So the result of "forced outreach" may just be to<br>
> cast a wider net over people who aren't that interested anyway,<br>> sometimes to the detriment of those who are.<br>> <br>> So where have all the cannibal-libertarian-crypto punks gone? Is<br>> everyone wearing corduroys and button-up shirts in this scene now?<br>
> <br>> <br>> Arclight<br>> <a href="http://shop.23b.org">http://shop.23b.org</a><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Matthew Forr <<a href="mailto:matthew.forr@gmail.com">matthew.forr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> So I think this is a really interesting bill which I totally support but the<br>>> skeptic in me wonders why gov funds are needed. Like if people want to do<br>>> it, they should do it. If they need to raise funds I think that can be done<br>
>> (Techshop right?) but if it needs gov subsides then perhaps there really<br>>> isn't a (sustainable) market for what we do.<br>>> Anyhow, if our stimulus dollars are going to pay for a lasercutter and CNC<br>
>> machine at the Node I'm not going to stop anyone but again I wonder to what<br>>> effect the gov can understand that various fablab/techshop/hackerspaces etc<br>>> needs and then meet them.<br>>><br>
>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Far McKon <<a href="mailto:farmckon@gmail.com">farmckon@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Jesse Krembs <<a href="mailto:jfk@893studio.com">jfk@893studio.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> > I 've spent some time in the MIT fablab and difference between them and<br>>>> > a hackerspace is pretty small. Both Neil<br>>>> > and Amy Sun are easy to talk to and easy to find.<br>
>>><br>>>> I'm all for fab-labs (gov't or Uni funded) or tech shops (for profit)<br>>>> but my heart is in hackerspaces. Partially, because they are a lower<br>>>> bar to entry, as a member or creator, much like Open Source software,<br>
>>> vs reasonably costing proprietary software.<br>>>><br>>>> As hackers, people tend to be hands on, and often when things get tied<br>>>> to existing institutions, the ability to get involved, have a say, fix<br>
>>> problems you see, become harder.<br>>>><br>>>> IHMO, it would be both awesome and sad if there was a 'Kinkos' of<br>>>> hackerpsaces (which I think Tech Shop wanted to do in the 90's).<br>
>>> Awesome on lowering the bar to innovation, play, and design. Not so<br>>>> awesome to opening up systems to getting into the guts, and improving<br>>>> them.<br>>>><br>>>> hack on,<br>
>>> - Far McKon<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> <a href="http://www.Hive76.org">http://www.Hive76.org</a> "Making things awesome, making awesome things!"<br>>>> <a href="http://www.FarMcKon.net">http://www.FarMcKon.net</a> "Creatively Maladjusted"<br>
>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> > If you'd like to know more a quick email to Neil might do the trick.<br>>>> > Isn't the AS220 space a hackerspace and fablab?<br>>>> > Jesse Krembs<br>
>>> > 802.233.7051<br>>>> > Sent from MDT.<br>>>> ><br>>>> > -----Original Message-----<br>>>> > From: Bryan Bishop <<a href="mailto:kanzure@gmail.com">kanzure@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> > Sender: discuss-bounces+jfk=<a href="http://893studio.com">893studio.com</a>@<a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org">lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>>>> > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:32:53<br>>>> > To: Hackerspaces General Discussion<br>
>>> > List<<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>>; Open<br>>>> > Manufacturing<<a href="mailto:openmanufacturing@googlegroups.com">openmanufacturing@googlegroups.com</a>>;<br>
>>> > diybio<<a href="mailto:diybio@googlegroups.com">diybio@googlegroups.com</a>>; World Transhumanist Association Discussion<br>>>> > List<<a href="mailto:wta-talk@transhumanism.org">wta-talk@transhumanism.org</a>>; Bryan Bishop<<a href="mailto:kanzure@gmail.com">kanzure@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> > Reply-To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List<br>>>> > <<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>><br>>>> > Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] National Fab Lab Network Act of 2010<br>
>>> > (111-HR6003)<br>>>> > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:04 PM, David Powell <<a href="mailto:davepow16@gmail.com">davepow16@gmail.com</a>><br>>>> > wrote:<br>>>> >> When I think of Fab Lab I think of the commercial version of a<br>
>>> >> Hackerspace.<br>>>> ><br>>>> > Technically, you should be thinking of a fablab as that initiative out<br>>>> > of the MIT Media Lab. They are usually built under a grant from NSF or<br>
>>> > some other academia/grant body. An example of a commercial hackerspace<br>>>> > might be TechShop. Most hackerspaces are community owned and operated,<br>>>> > although they tend to be their own organizations yes (like a co-op,<br>
>>> > LLC, or 501c3).<br>>>> ><br>>>> >> Although it would be non-profit would it also be inexpensive? I'm all<br>>>> >> for<br>>>> ><br>>>> > The fablab initiative out of MIT is not entirely inexpensive. Last<br>
>>> > time I checked they bought most of their equipment from suppliers.<br>>>> ><br>>>> > <a href="http://fab.cba.mit.edu/about/fab/inv.html">http://fab.cba.mit.edu/about/fab/inv.html</a><br>
>>> > <a href="http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/BOMs/comparison/fablab.yaml">http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/BOMs/comparison/fablab.yaml</a><br>>>> ><br>>>> > For comparison, techshop's equipment usually includes:<br>
>>> > <a href="http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/BOMs/comparison/techshop.yaml">http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/BOMs/comparison/techshop.yaml</a><br>>>> ><br>>>> >> creating a network of Hackerspaces. But I don't feel educated enough to<br>
>>> >> write congressmen in support of this bill. I don't think know the<br>>>> >> people<br>>>> >> behind the bill. How can I be sure they have my best interest in mind<br>
>>> >> and<br>>>> ><br>>>> > No, you're absolutely right. I have found that the MIT Media Lab can<br>>>> > be like a clique sometimes, and particularly avoiding of hackerspaces<br>
>>> > in general.. I could be wrong, maybe they have hit on Nick Farr before<br>>>> > or something, who knows. But yeah, so far it has been primarily an<br>>>> > academic pursuit for them (Neil Gershenfeld wanting to answer the<br>
>>> > question "what would people make?"). What would be really amazing is<br>>>> > having hackerspaces brought on board to this initiative- i.e., using<br>>>> > the already established hackerspaces in the United States, instead of<br>
>>> > building everything from scratch.<br>>>> ><br>>>> >> are not trying to make 7 figure living through this "non-profit" like<br>>>> >> many<br>>>> ><br>
>>> > :-)<br>>>> ><br>>>> >> do in other non-profits in our country. How can I be sure this is<br>>>> >> really<br>>>> >> about the science and technology and not about money? I would need to<br>
>>> >> be<br>>>> >> better educated before making a decision.<br>>>> ><br>>>> > - Bryan<br>>>> > <a href="http://heybryan.org/">http://heybryan.org/</a><br>
>>> > 1 512 203 0507<br>>>> > _______________________________________________<br>>>> > Discuss mailing list<br>>>> > <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>> > <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>>>> > _______________________________________________<br>>>> > Discuss mailing list<br>
>>> > <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>>>> > <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>>> ><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Discuss mailing list<br>>>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> --<br>>> -Matthew<br>>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Discuss mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>><br>>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Discuss mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
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