<p>You need to stop sending this stuff to the global hackerspaces list.</p>
<p><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 14, 2010 8:01 AM, "Bryan Bishop" <<a href="mailto:kanzure@gmail.com">kanzure@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>Hey all,<br>
<br>
I sat in the corner of the room typing down a transcript of what<br>
everyone was saying. I am terribly sorry that I do not have<br>
attribution for everyone. Someone will probably throw this transcript<br>
up on the <a href="http://austinhackerspaces.org" target="_blank">austinhackerspaces.org</a> wiki at some point as well. There was<br>
also a ustream stream, but I don't know if anyone recorded.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://designfiles.org/~bryan/chats/2010-04-13_austinhackerspace.log" target="_blank">http://designfiles.org/~bryan/chats/2010-04-13_austinhackerspace.log</a><br>
<br>
I had to leave at about 20:30, so it's incomplete, but Mike took over<br>
with some summarizing.<br>
<br>
--- Day changed Tue Apr 13 2010<br>
--- Log opened Tue Apr 13 18:24:38 2010<br>
18:24 -!- kanzure [<a href="mailto:bryan@146.6.88.45">bryan@146.6.88.45</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
18:24 -!- Irssi: #austinhackerspace: Total of 7 nicks [0 ops, 0<br>
halfops, 0 voices, 7 normal]<br>
18:26 -!- Irssi: Join to #austinhackerspace was synced in 91 secs<br>
18:34 -!- genehacker<br>
[<a href="mailto:genehacker@wireless-128-62-40-221.public.utexas.edu">genehacker@wireless-128-62-40-221.public.utexas.edu</a>] has quit [Ping<br>
timeout: 264 seconds]<br>
18:35 -!- darkcontrast [~<a href="mailto:darkcontr@71.22.109.98">darkcontr@71.22.109.98</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
18:37 -!- quantumkat [~<a href="mailto:kat@ip98-170-251-132.pn.at.cox.net">kat@ip98-170-251-132.pn.at.cox.net</a>] has joined<br>
#austinhackerspace<br>
18:41 -!- fenn [<a href="mailto:fenn@146.6.88.45">fenn@146.6.88.45</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
18:42 < kanzure> is this right? martin had his family lawyer write up<br>
a liabiliy waiver for les<br>
18:42 < kanzure> not sure if les has read it yet<br>
18:42 < kanzure> "no responsibility to inform others of possibility of<br>
hazardous situations"<br>
18:44 < kanzure> *liability<br>
18:44 < kanzure> "The only reason we generated these waivers was to<br>
let Les continue to operate without starting a war with his landlord<br>
or #107."<br>
18:45 < kanzure> "You have a surface microphone we can put on the wall<br>
with #107?"<br>
18:46 < kanzure> "There's slightly imbalanced and then there's<br>
completely not there, so."<br>
18:46 < kanzure> "I'm not going to poke that dragon."<br>
18:47 * kanzure wonders if we can have the liability waiver rewritten<br>
if necessary<br>
18:47 < darkcontrast> if you pay for it :)<br>
18:48 < kanzure> okay<br>
18:48 < ACProdigy> ?Hmm<br>
18:48 < kanzure> "The one that I want to throw out there is that you<br>
have to assume that someone is recording it."<br>
18:49 < kanzure> "If you are going to webcast, you need to publish<br>
your own version."<br>
18:49 < kanzure> "M<aybe record it and edit it down."<br>
18:49 < kanzure> "Lady Ada doesn't put the whole thing out there<br>
because someone may record it. You want to verify that it will be the<br>
correct recording."<br>
18:49 < ACProdigy> Are you acting running scribe?<br>
18:49 < kanzure> "How much do we want to publish? We're in a community<br>
that is hyper-sensitive to this type of space."<br>
18:49 < kanzure> "Texas is conservative. Austin is not so much."<br>
18:49 < kanzure> yes<br>
18:49 < kanzure> "And we have a grumpy neighbor. The landlord has told<br>
him to take a hike."<br>
18:50 < ACProdigy> So, the webcasting is a no-go, then?<br>
18:50 < kanzure> right<br>
18:50 < kanzure> i'll just type<br>
18:50 < ACProdigy> Lol, alright.<br>
18:51 < kanzure> only a handful of people are here<br>
18:51 < kanzure> mike, matt, steve, martin, david, and victor(?) or<br>
someone else i don't know the name of<br>
18:51 < ACProdigy> I couldn't make it due to training. They picked<br>
today, of all days..<br>
18:51 < ACProdigy> How long does it look like the meeting is going to be?<br>
18:51 < kanzure> "If anyone else has something to the agenda tonight,<br>
it would be a good idea to add it there to the discussion."<br>
18:51 < kanzure> depends on who shows up ;)<br>
18:51 < kanzure> "We are officially a business entity according to the bank."<br>
18:51 < ACProdigy> I might be able to make it out there in half an hour or so<br>
18:51 < kanzure> "They don't care. As long as one person is willing to<br>
sign and be responsible."<br>
18:52 < kanzure> you can also just ask questions and i'll voice them<br>
18:52 < ACProdigy> Thank you for that.<br>
18:52 < kanzure> "LLC, non-profit, it's easy. Okay."<br>
18:52 < kanzure> "We have officially have 1426 dollars now in the account."<br>
18:52 < kanzure> "I want a drink"<br>
18:52 < kanzure> woops<br>
18:53 < ACProdigy> lol<br>
18:54 < kanzure> "No space for the minor to sign."<br>
18:54 < kanzure> "All of this was designed for Geek House, which was<br>
meant to be residential condos. So it was going to be in San<br>
Francisco. It's a modified version of that."<br>
18:55 < kanzure> "Can I get the waiver signed on Monday?" "Sure,<br>
there's not a problem with that."<br>
18:57 < kanzure> evan entered<br>
18:58 -!- plars [~<a href="mailto:plars@75-27-138-126.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net">plars@75-27-138-126.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net</a>]<br>
has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
18:58 < kanzure> hello plars<br>
18:58 * kanzure is transcripting<br>
18:58 < plars> hi :)<br>
18:58 < kanzure> "I am surprised that les still has all his fingers."<br>
18:58 < kanzure> "Les is very, very careful."<br>
18:59 -!- Martyn [~<a href="mailto:martinb@71.22.109.98">martinb@71.22.109.98</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
18:59 < kanzure> hello Martyn<br>
18:59 < kanzure> oh, wait<br>
19:00 < kanzure> "We've got a biologically hazardous organism clause! Cool."<br>
19:00 < kanzure> "AHS members are going to have to sign a different<br>
one as well, which goes with our insurance company. The lawyer will<br>
make it sound lawyerly."<br>
19:00 < kanzure> "This waiver sounds reasonable, actually."<br>
19:01 < kanzure> "It initially took us 4 weeks to write it out."<br>
19:01 < kanzure> david entered<br>
19:01 < kanzure> well, another david<br>
19:02 * kanzure wonders where nathan turner is tonight<br>
19:02 < kanzure> "Should we do a quick tour before we start for people<br>
that haven't seen the space?"<br>
19:02 < kanzure> oh man, more people<br>
19:03 < darkcontrast> justin and otto<br>
19:03 < kanzure> thanks<br>
19:03 < darkcontrast> i forget the others :/<br>
19:03 < kanzure> maybe we should do a roll call / name call<br>
19:03 < darkcontrast> second<br>
19:03 < darkcontrast> w00h00 11 people<br>
19:04 < kanzure> christian<br>
19:04 < ACProdigy> Can you ask if its alright to log this for my<br>
reference? Usually its frowned upon, but..<br>
19:05 < kanzure> go ahead and log<br>
19:05 < kanzure> i'm not typing this for nothing<br>
19:05 < ACProdigy> Right<br>
19:05 < kanzure> todo: whiteboard<br>
19:05 < ACProdigy> [nod]<br>
19:05 < kanzure> "Someone is driving here. What landmark should they<br>
look for?" "Breakcheck."<br>
19:05 < kanzure> roland<br>
19:06 < darkcontrast> it's fairly hard to prevent people from<br>
logging.. and i don't see a problem with it<br>
19:06 < kanzure> otto mehi ?<br>
19:06 < ACProdigy> Well its the honour system anyways<br>
19:06 < kanzure> steven regester<br>
19:06 < ACProdigy> But I figured I'd ask<br>
19:07 < darkcontrast> otto hemmi<br>
19:07 < kanzure> christian miller<br>
19:07 < kanzure> rolland mcintosh<br>
19:07 < kanzure> roland?<br>
19:07 < kanzure> david dosher?<br>
19:07 < kanzure> evan mallory<br>
19:07 < darkcontrast> it'll be on the wiki<br>
19:07 < kanzure> brockshire?<br>
19:08 < kanzure> walt fowler, david fowler just entered<br>
19:08 < ACProdigy> Is there a media/photography waiver, or is that<br>
just needing to be established on a per-case basis?<br>
19:08 < kanzure> "No. There is not one at this time. It's up to Les."<br>
19:08 < ACProdigy> Regarding individuals who may be in-frame, etc.<br>
19:09 < kanzure> "The only thing that you can not take pictures of is<br>
in the workshop part for the pre-production crew. They are top-secret.<br>
You can look at it, and talk to them about it, just don't take<br>
pictures."<br>
19:09 < darkcontrast> if in doubt, ask les.. for now, he prefers not<br>
to have a lot of pictures out there<br>
19:09 < ACProdigy> Alright.<br>
19:09 < darkcontrast> be aware there may be copyrighted material around<br>
19:09 < ACProdigy> Of course.<br>
19:10 < kanzure> but for some reason there's a lot on the wiki<br>
19:11 < kanzure> why are people moving around<br>
19:11 < kanzure> "Okay. I am expecting someone to come in randomly."<br>
"Yes I have a friend coming in in a few minutes."<br>
19:11 < kanzure> "power?"<br>
19:12 < kanzure> "Does anybody have an objection to this being<br>
webcasted or recorded in any way? It basically might be recorded by<br>
someone. So."<br>
19:12 < kanzure> "There are people on the internet that want to know<br>
what we're doing?"<br>
19:12 < ACProdigy> I've been there in person<br>
19:12 < kanzure> les entered<br>
19:13 < ACProdigy> So I'm not a completely random person<br>
19:13 < ACProdigy> haha.<br>
19:13 < kanzure> <a href="http://ustream.tv/channel/austin-hackerspace" target="_blank">http://ustream.tv/channel/austin-hackerspace</a><br>
19:13 < ACProdigy> Awesome<br>
19:13 < darkcontrast> <a href="http://www.ustream.tv/channel/austin-hackerspace" target="_blank">http://www.ustream.tv/channel/austin-hackerspace</a><br>
19:13 < kanzure> "Welcome to the very first meeting of the Austin Hackerspace."<br>
19:13 < kanzure> "Ah, I hate this."<br>
19:13 < kanzure> hm<br>
19:13 < kanzure> "So, what we're going to- I guess what we want to<br>
start with is a brief history of AHS."<br>
19:14 < kanzure> "Not just that, but how we kind of, how we exist and<br>
how we fit into the greater whole of the space we are currently<br>
sitting in."<br>
19:14 < kanzure> "There are four people that got together. Ratha<br>
Grimes, who is not here, myself (Martin), we moved from SF and from<br>
Seattle to Austin."<br>
19:14 < kanzure> "We met Matt McCabe, and Mike Rich."<br>
19:14 < kanzure> "There's someone else that is a part of it -Whurley-<br>
who helped us find each other. And literally we sat down in Austin<br>
Java back in November."<br>
19:14 < kanzure> "A lot of people talking about stuff, let's just put<br>
something together and see what happens, see what explodes."<br>
19:15 < kanzure> "That month, it was November, we chose to go and see<br>
if we could find a space. So we're looking at various potential<br>
locations, and we found this guy, Les Filip."<br>
19:15 < kanzure> "Les was going to be one of the co-founders of<br>
TechShop here in Austin, and I am sure he will tell you in long detail<br>
if you would like. But only those things that are covered by NDAs."<br>
19:15 < kanzure> "So, Les was- has, independently also trying to start<br>
a space, and it all gelled together pretty well. He had this wonderful<br>
idea of letting us come in and rent spaces."<br>
19:15 < kanzure> "They are currently all rented out. We have 3. Film<br>
production has the rest."<br>
19:15 < kanzure> "There are 4 other groups."<br>
19:15 < kanzure> "Tim"<br>
19:15 -!- MattZeroSeven [~<a href="mailto:Adium@71.22.109.98">Adium@71.22.109.98</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
19:16 < kanzure> "There are other people and we'll talk about how we<br>
relate to that."<br>
19:16 < kanzure> "Les was kind enough to say hey, if you want in on<br>
this, get in. So we did. We put in a lot of hours. Some of you have<br>
been volunteering on Saturdays, putting in blood sweat and tears and<br>
more tears."<br>
19:16 < kanzure> "We have built a series of spaces, workshops if you<br>
would like, they are 8x10. AHS has 3 of them. They are the first three<br>
in the row."<br>
19:16 < ACProdigy> Excellent transcribing, by the way. Thanks for that.<br>
19:16 < kanzure> "Those will be our HQ. This is where we live."<br>
19:16 < kanzure> "That's pretty much the beginning of getting this<br>
started. All of us had an independent idea of what a hackerspace is."<br>
19:16 < kanzure> "I'll say a little bit about what myself is."<br>
19:17 < kanzure> "My name is Matt, and basically it was Mike and I had<br>
this idea for a while, for a couple years, we created a wiki and<br>
promptly forgot about it. So it was really Ratha and Martin's kick in<br>
the butt that .. that's Ratha."<br>
19:17 < kanzure> enter ratha<br>
19:17 < kanzure> "It was really them coming to town and giving us a<br>
kick in the pants, and saying let's really do this."<br>
19:17 < kanzure> "I want to point out that this wouldn't have happened<br>
or wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Les."<br>
19:17 < kanzure> "Over and over again I get asked by other<br>
ahackerspaces how this was possible. "<br>
19:17 < kanzure> "Most lax-landlord ever."<br>
19:18 < kanzure> "So really, that's . We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Les."<br>
19:18 < kanzure> (round of applause)<br>
19:18 < ACProdigy> [clapclapclap]<br>
19:18 < kanzure> "So, I want to go around and let each of us four<br>
introduce ourselves, who we are and what we are up to."<br>
19:18 < darkcontrast> you wanna be my voice kanzure?<br>
19:18 < kanzure> Ratha: "I'm Ratha. I moved to Austin more than a year ago."<br>
19:18 < kanzure> maybe<br>
19:18 < darkcontrast> it'll really confuse people<br>
19:19 < kanzure> "Austin is really cool. I might want to live there.<br>
So I came there to meet people. We all said you should do this<br>
hackerspace thing. So now I am getting a job at Google, so I'm moving<br>
out next week. I'm here for moral support."<br>
19:19 < ACProdigy> DarkContrast: are you not there in person?<br>
19:19 < kanzure> he is<br>
19:19 < kanzure> "And of course Matt."<br>
19:19 < darkcontrast> my voice comes and goes :)<br>
19:19 < ACProdigy> Ahhh, gotcha.<br>
19:19 < kanzure> "My name is Matt. I'm a web programmer. I own my<br>
small business. I quit the corporate world. I am loving my<br>
non-corporate non-9-to-5 job. I am more of a tinkerer than a hacker. I<br>
like to learn and I like to make things. So that's why I am here and<br>
why I want to be involved in this."<br>
19:20 < kanzure> "I'm Martin. I come from San Francisco and Florida. I<br>
am a co-founder of NYC Resistor and Noisebridge. I am a hacker in<br>
every aspect of the word. I do PCB designer, robotics controllers, all<br>
the way to genetic engineering. My primary purpose here is to work on<br>
some of my projects and also teach people as much as I possibly can<br>
dump out of my head for what people find to be fun. That is the point<br>
of it. And to have fun."<br>
19:20 < kanzure> "Who wants the task of taking the minutes?"<br>
19:21 < kanzure> >_<<br>
19:21 * darkcontrast Martyn has a piece of hardware which may or may<br>
not be helpful at the end of July in Vegas<br>
19:21 < kanzure> "How are we going to organizse ourselves?"<br>
19:21 < kanzure> "There are a llot of different options as to how we<br>
can exist as an entity. Some of them are like, we are currently a<br>
co-op, so Ratha, Mike and Matt and I have signed for a workshop with<br>
Les. We are kind of structured that way. It was convenient at the time<br>
because we didn't have a lot of people."<br>
19:21 < ACProdigy> kanzure: Is the room echoing or is it the stream?<br>
19:21 < kanzure> "Examples: LLC, we can do the LLC"<br>
19:21 < kanzure> it's the stream<br>
19:21 < ACProdigy> Okay, just making sure :D<br>
19:22 < kanzure> "There's an L3C, a limited liability corporation for<br>
non-profits. It's a low-profit - it's a company that whose mission is<br>
a social thing. We'll get into that."<br>
19:22 < kanzure> "Examples: LLC, we can do the LLC. We'd have to talk<br>
into a lawyer, incorporate in Texas and also AAADelaware. It gets<br>
weird."<br>
19:23 < kanzure> "Finally, a non-profit corporation. There are<br>
difficulties in all of these. There are other ways to organize. In<br>
discussing, in the discussions that Matt, Mike and I have been, we've<br>
kind of focused on the LLC because it's a full limited liability<br>
company. The board members would take the brunt of the liability<br>
financially, and repsonsibility if anything happens for a<br>
hackerspace."<br>
19:23 < ACProdigy> [nod]<br>
19:23 < kanzure> "This is one way to do it. The other reflection to<br>
that is the non-profit corporation. They are watched like a hawk by<br>
the IRS because the real only benefit to it is that you can take<br>
donations, and you can take that off of your taxes."<br>
19:23 < darkcontrast> the L3C would have to be incorporated<br>
out-of-state (there are only about 10 states that have this on this<br>
book)<br>
19:23 < kanzure> "It costs a fortunate. 501c(3). 501c(4). You start a<br>
c3. It would be a 501c3."<br>
19:23 < kanzure> yeah<br>
19:24 < kanzure> "A c3 can be a club, and a c4 is more cheritable. C3<br>
are not expected to do cherity necessaricly."<br>
19:24 < kanzure> "You can become tax-exempt under 501c3. Of the<br>
hackerspaces, in the U.S., are pretty evenly split between LLC and<br>
501c3. None of them have gone the low-profit way. A few are, the<br>
smallest ones are just limited partnerships so that they can get bank<br>
accounts."<br>
19:24 < kanzure> "I'll open the floor to pipe in."<br>
19:25 < ACProdigy> My two cents: LLC sounds like a more viable choice.<br>
Especially with the issues 501c3's and the IRS can tend to cause.<br>
19:25 < kanzure> "Those are your two best choices. I wouldn't do the<br>
l3c, that's just Delaware and Virginia, and only a couple of States<br>
that do that. It's hardly recognized. The LLC and non-profit are the<br>
two-ways. Isn't much difference in the paperwork. A 990T, or you're<br>
doing the 1120 or one of the other. The LLC is the one I'd recommend."<br>
19:26 < kanzure> "On an LLC, youj can have an unlimited number of<br>
members of the board of directors. Everyone could become a member of<br>
the board. Member-managed LLC. There are two types of LLC. Whereas<br>
there has to be a smaller and deliniated groups of directors in a<br>
501dc3."<br>
19:26 < kanzure> "They hire an executive based off of where the clock<br>
dings. Noisebridge has a very odd social experiment going on called<br>
consensus. It's breaking down horribly."<br>
19:26 < kanzure> "How does nycresistor work?"<br>
19:26 < kanzure> "NYC resistor is an LLC with a board and executive structure."<br>
19:26 < kanzure> "Do you expect a profit and to whom do you expect the<br>
profit to go to?"<br>
19:27 < kanzure> "My opinion is that we should operate with the idea<br>
that we will try to grow our hackerspace and try to keep a buffer, but<br>
that we're not profit-motivated. We need to meet our operating<br>
expenses, anything else goes to growth. With an LLC, then everyone<br>
needs an 1120 for the tax return. And then a CPA to do that for every<br>
single member."<br>
19:27 < kanzure> "It also depends how you structure it. If everyone<br>
has a share, for example, of the LLC, then that is the case. However<br>
if you use the LLC as a business container, the space itself, then<br>
individual members won't have to worry about that, unless they become<br>
investing members."<br>
19:28 < kanzure> "Membership has a definition in a LLC."<br>
19:28 < kanzure> (in terms of taxes)<br>
19:28 < kanzure> "Members will get the taxes."<br>
19:28 < kanzure> "For simplicity we will say that, we'll call an LLC<br>
member, and the other a member. That way we can deliniate it."<br>
19:28 < kanzure> "What I would recommend is that the intent is not to<br>
make a profit, but to meet expenses. So what you can do is have a<br>
certain number minimum, to have the corporation exist. Anyone can come<br>
in fi they want and buy a share."<br>
19:28 < Martyn> ACProdigy: What's your RL name? I forgot...<br>
19:28 < kanzure> "Other one needs to be a member of the LLC. If you<br>
feel compelled to have a say in what's going on, then you can be a<br>
member of the LLC."<br>
19:29 < kanzure> "Or you can have profit, it gets returned back by<br>
reducing rent, equipment, and always keep that 0-level. You can either<br>
be a voting member or not, or you can just be a paid member, etc."<br>
19:29 < kanzure> "That's true."<br>
19:29 < kanzure> "Because if we get everyone here in as a member, then<br>
we get CPA issues."<br>
19:29 < kanzure> "But they also charge a lot."<br>
19:29 < ACProdigy> Lost stream.<br>
19:29 < ACProdigy> ACProdigy: I'm Tim.<br>
19:30 < ACProdigy> er<br>
19:30 < ACProdigy> wow.<br>
19:30 < kanzure> "Even if we, we can also form as an LLC, and then<br>
down the road, start fulfilling out the paperwork if we want to go to<br>
a non-profit model."<br>
19:30 < kanzure> ACProdigy: fail :)<br>
19:30 < ACProdigy> Martyn: ACProdigy<-> Tim.<br>
19:30 < ACProdigy> Sorry<br>
19:30 < ACProdigy> My laptop is on my back.<br>
19:30 < ACProdigy> I'm walking about.<br>
19:30 < darkcontrast> hahaha what?<br>
19:30 < kanzure> "We just need a legal entity. If someone hurts<br>
themselves sues us, we have some sort of buffer. So, it is also to<br>
protect Les. If someone comes in and does something stupid, we might<br>
get sued, and maybe that will protects Les."<br>
19:30 < ACProdigy> I have an earpiece in, but my laptop is on my back for IRC.<br>
19:30 < kanzure> "The waiver that you just signed will only protect<br>
Les. We've had some talks with people about interesting events, along<br>
the line of Makerfaire, which would happen outside of here."<br>
19:31 < kanzure> "Another immediate need is that we've had at least<br>
one, in how many details I don't know how to give out, we've had one<br>
organization come to us and say that they want to give us money to<br>
teach classes. So what do we do then? If we don't have a legal entity,<br>
it's difficult to take someone's money. They're not going to check a<br>
write to me or Martin or Mike. They should write it to an organization<br>
that has a specific mission that is aligned with their grant<br>
requirements."<br>
19:31 < kanzure> "In an LLC, they will give money to an LLC or a<br>
non-profit. It's a non-issue, we don't have to be a non-profit. We<br>
need some sort of legal structure."<br>
19:32 < kanzure> "Any other? Any one have a strong opinion one way or<br>
another? Speak now or forever hold your peace."<br>
19:32 < kanzure> "Whether or not to be a non-profit. You wouldn't<br>
generally ... you don't need to be a non-profit tomorrow. If you're<br>
going to do something now, then you hsould do an LLC. The IRS will<br>
take 9mo for a non-profit."<br>
19:32 < kanzure> "We can ponder the non-profit status."<br>
19:33 < kanzure> "What is the advantage of being a 501c3? It's not<br>
that much less paperwork. You have to take yearly minutes, you have to<br>
abide by the corporate structure. Your charter has to be absolutely<br>
adhered to. Changing your charter requires a full board meeting to<br>
change everything."<br>
19:33 < kanzure> "I took a 501c3 class one semester and it didn't seem<br>
like a huge deal. But on the other hand, the professor wasn't much of<br>
a big deal either."<br>
19:33 < kanzure> "you have to abide by significantly more restrictions<br>
as a non-profit with an LLC. But you're trying to be more flexible."<br>
19:34 < kanzure> "So, then, if we're going to form an as LLC, who<br>
should be the members?"<br>
19:34 < kanzure> "Would there be any problem if we form the LLC? It<br>
follows corporate structure. You have to give up your stake."<br>
19:34 < kanzure> "I would be willing to be a board member, and I would<br>
want to be invited."<br>
19:34 < kanzure> "There are conflicts if he tries to steer it."<br>
19:35 < kanzure> "The board member serves to elect or fire the<br>
executive. That's what board members. Advisory roles, it has status.<br>
They also serve as the primary target for liability of the company.<br>
They are specifically finacially responsible."<br>
19:35 < kanzure> "Not really with an LLC unless there's flagrant abuse."<br>
19:35 < kanzure> "The executives don't get sued, but the board members do."<br>
19:35 < kanzure> "What form of LLC? Member-managed, or board-managed?"<br>
19:35 < kanzure> enter john griessen<br>
19:36 < kanzure> "About a month ago there was a big discussion on<br>
liability. Signing up with the State and forming a corporation makes<br>
you easy to find liability, easy to blame. That's just part of the<br>
thing. That's why you take liability insurance. That's the next thing<br>
on the agenda."<br>
19:36 < kanzure> "It is difficult to obtain liability insurance<br>
without a legal entity. We could do it individually, but it's not the<br>
same thing."<br>
19:37 < kanzure> "AHS is covered by my personal policy with Statefarm<br>
Insurance. While we are in the space, ew're covered by Statefarm by<br>
Les too. We have $1.5M by Martin, and $500k by Les."<br>
19:37 < kanzure> "I understand the desire to protect ourselves. Have<br>
you paid lipservice cash under the table fly by night? As far as<br>
liability goes, .."<br>
19:37 < kanzure> "Mike and I were pushing this at the beginning. We<br>
don't even know if this is going to work."<br>
19:38 < kanzure> "What we decided is that, there's no way to run an<br>
organization without having some sort of legal entity around it."<br>
19:38 < kanzure> "We're not all pocketing the money. We don't want to<br>
have that. We want to avoid that appearance."<br>
19:38 < kanzure> "Waivers are only as good as the court they are signed in."<br>
19:38 -!- Halogenoalkane [~<a href="mailto:chatzilla@74.196.116.125">chatzilla@74.196.116.125</a>] has joined<br>
#austinhackerspace<br>
19:38 < kanzure> "Insurance means that they will fight for you hard.<br>
Insurance hates that they lose their money."<br>
19:38 < kanzure> hey Halogenoalkane<br>
19:38 < kanzure> john griessen<br>
19:39 < kanzure> "It's a $10k grant to teach tech classes. So, again,<br>
without going into details, like we don't know if it's going to<br>
happen. It kind of just came down out of the sky. We're this fly by<br>
night operation, give us $10k. yeah right. Make the check out to Matt<br>
McCabe, I don't think so. We only accept money orders. We're a<br>
hackerspace woo!"<br>
19:39 < kanzure> "Let's just get a consensus. Does anyone have a<br>
different idea than an LLC or something off of that track for phase<br>
1?"<br>
19:40 < kanzure> "How much support activity and money will it take<br>
from members to support this LLC and record-keeping and book-keeping?<br>
Gnucash, or CPA, or what?"<br>
19:40 < kanzure> "It would be the same no matter which organizational<br>
structure we choose."<br>
19:40 < kanzure> "Let's get a show of hands, of people present, how<br>
many people are in favor of an LLC?"<br>
19:40 < ACProdigy> Me!<br>
19:40 < kanzure> "We have general consensus. We will proceed to<br>
incorporate as an LLC in the State of Texas."<br>
19:40 < kanzure> "You're going to put all of our names in it? Is it<br>
going to be a partnership?"<br>
19:41 < kanzure> "There is one more thing. Insurance and liability.<br>
What we need and why we need it or don't need it. Les has got a policy<br>
from Statefarm for the space we are in. It's pretty strong. They came<br>
in and inspected everything and decided he was worthy of getting a<br>
good price."<br>
19:41 < kanzure> "We're going to move forward as a separate entity.<br>
How does the liability work?"<br>
19:42 < ACProdigy> hahaha<br>
19:42 < kanzure> "The more liability insurance that we go for, the<br>
more expensive as John was saying, things get. I did a quick bit of<br>
shopping with a bunch of insurers, and Medco, Statefarm, Metco<br>
Metlife, and a few others. It is. Other hackerspaces have been<br>
insured, but they cost about $1.2k/year and that gets you $1M of<br>
general purpose liability, I fell down the stairs, someone's<br>
experiment blew up. The kind of things that happen."<br>
19:42 < plars> woops :)<br>
19:42 < ACProdigy> Hmm?<br>
19:42 < kanzure> "It doesn't cover medical, it just covers general<br>
damage. I really don't know what kind of liability insurance we should<br>
get. The more things you want, the more expensive it gets."<br>
19:42 < ACProdigy> plars: Did you blow something up..?<br>
19:43 < Halogenoalkane> uh oh :P<br>
19:43 < kanzure> "$1M/year? It's a million dollars liability, a<br>
million dollars payout. That's the total. The maximum payout per given<br>
incident is equally up to $1M in this type of policy. In this cover,<br>
would it cover medical if someone gets hurt? No."<br>
19:43 < kanzure> "It covers getting sued, if someone gets hurt, they<br>
would have to sue the corporation and try to get it through those<br>
means, unless we put a medical rider on it. If your corporation has<br>
almost no money, they won't sue you. Your board members have money<br>
though."<br>
19:44 < kanzure> "Some of the founders or people on the board might<br>
have quite a lot on the line. And betting that someone is not going to<br>
sue you is never a good bet. It's the united states, you'll get sued."<br>
19:44 < kanzure> "If we go out and get this liability insurance, what<br>
are people interested in seeing. What type of coverage would you like<br>
to see?"<br>
19:44 < kanzure> "What kind of things would you want to be insured for?"<br>
19:44 < ACProdigy> Ah I had a question<br>
19:45 < ACProdigy> Is there going to be electronic lockout or somesuch<br>
on the larger tools?<br>
19:45 < kanzure> "Medical. If I cut my hand off at the table saw,<br>
doesn't that get covered by my job? If you signed the waiver, you need<br>
to realize that you need to have personal medical insurance. You<br>
signed it already."<br>
19:45 < kanzure> yes<br>
19:45 < ACProdigy> Alright<br>
19:45 < kanzure> "I guarantee that you will not be allowed to use my<br>
laser cutter without a card. You will need training before you use<br>
it."<br>
19:45 < kanzure> "So other than medical and general liability. Some of<br>
you are into robotics."<br>
19:46 < darkcontrast> Not all large equipment is guaranteed to have a lockout<br>
19:46 < kanzure> "Negligence on the part of the people who should be<br>
maintaining their personal equipment. Sticking your hands in someone's<br>
laser cutter who's interlocks were disabled?"<br>
19:46 < ACProdigy> In that case, would a custom interlock of sorts be<br>
made to ensure training?<br>
19:46 < ACProdigy> In the case of large equipment not having an<br>
already existing lockout<br>
19:46 < kanzure> "There's a specific type of liability for negligence,<br>
acts of god, and something else. It's a rider. It doesn't cost that<br>
much. It's $300 over the $1200 policy. Each rider is going to add more<br>
to the overall cost."<br>
19:46 < kanzure> yes it's presumably a "custom" interlock<br>
19:47 < ACProdigy> Alright, I figured.<br>
19:47 < darkcontrast> we're discussing who's responsibility it is to<br>
provide training/interlock/etc<br>
19:47 < ACProdigy> I have a few ideas for interlock systems design<br>
19:47 < kanzure> "I would like to use the large CNC router for manufacturing."<br>
19:47 < kanzure> "Could get into more electronics manufacturing stuff<br>
along with that guy from San Antonio."<br>
19:47 < kanzure> "I want to get into manufacturing things out of metal."<br>
19:47 < ACProdigy> With centralized DB containing data as to whether a<br>
person is trained to operate _x_<br>
19:47 < kanzure> "robot apocalypse"<br>
19:47 < kanzure> "electronics, soldering, chemicals"<br>
19:48 < kanzure> "plastics molding"<br>
19:48 < plars> zombies<br>
19:48 < kanzure> ACProdigy: yeah i have some software about that if<br>
you're interested maybe?<br>
19:48 < kanzure> "machining"<br>
19:48 < darkcontrast> plars: one sec<br>
19:48 < kanzure> "automatons, electrical or mechanical, or makerbot"<br>
19:48 < ACProdigy> kanzure: Well I was saying for the space, it would<br>
make things a little easier if there were a central system with a<br>
known protocol, that allows machines to be enabled/disabled.<br>
19:48 < kanzure> yeah i know<br>
19:49 < ACProdigy> okay<br>
19:49 < Halogenoalkane> self aware AI<br>
19:49 < ACProdigy> Also, Computer Security / Robotics / Electronics /<br>
Chemistry, here.<br>
19:49 < darkcontrast> no one has owned up to the possibility of creating zombies<br>
19:49 < kanzure> "possibly hazardous biology"<br>
19:49 < ACProdigy> Kanzure: Did Martyn mention that?<br>
19:49 < kanzure> "CNC machinery"<br>
19:49 < darkcontrast> zombies would probably fall under "possibly<br>
hazardous biology"<br>
19:49 < kanzure> "I have my own lab for the most part, I just want to<br>
meet people."<br>
19:50 < kanzure> "craft, dovetailing into CNC and extrusion and that<br>
sort of thing"<br>
19:50 < kanzure> "mechanical research and development" (woo les!)<br>
19:50 < darkcontrast> splinters<br>
19:50 < kanzure> "absorbing your information"<br>
19:50 < kanzure> "I have a slight question. If I am into high voltage,<br>
I want to make a singing arc. That shouldn't be a problem"<br>
19:51 < kanzure> "My previous project was robotics control on the 300<br>
to 600 amp range. My next project will be on the 2 to 50,000 volt<br>
range. What size robotics are these? 150 pounds."<br>
19:51 < kanzure> arcattack<br>
19:51 < kanzure> "Someone might torch someone else's project or<br>
someone else's person."<br>
19:52 < kanzure> "We could get away with general liability with a<br>
medical writer, under the general liability we will try to get the<br>
negligence waiver or rider on top."<br>
19:52 < kanzure> rider? writer?<br>
19:52 < darkcontrast> rider<br>
19:52 < kanzure> "This is going to cost, well, the basic policy is<br>
going to come out to about $1500, and at the high end it will be<br>
$2500. You will pay this once every six months. They generally don't<br>
do this in a month to month way. You have to do this at a chunk at a<br>
time. With these two riders, I'll try tgoget an everything policy. It<br>
was up to $4k/year. To get it all. But that's coverage you can count<br>
on. At that point you are covered."<br>
19:53 < kanzure> "Is there some way that each individual can add<br>
something to their own policy? I can get $1M liability for $100."<br>
19:53 < ACProdigy> lol<br>
19:53 < Halogenoalkane> those zombies<br>
19:53 < kanzure> "We're trying to protect the AHS entity, and it's not<br>
about you. It's aboiut the random person who walks in, falls down and<br>
hits the arc that he happens to be testing. Or it's about - nobody<br>
meant to do anything wrong- but the chemical experiment happened to<br>
rust the girder, and the girder fell in."<br>
19:53 < Halogenoalkane> start eating people<br>
19:53 < kanzure> "The email from you said that members that didn't<br>
have a slot, no key..."<br>
19:54 < kanzure> "it sounds like the the numbers would have to be<br>
high, and it wouldn't be easy to manage the group."<br>
19:54 < ACProdigy> Kanzure: What are we discussing electronic-entry wise?<br>
19:54 < kanzure> "It's between $2500 to $4k a year. They offer it in<br>
lower quantities, but there's a cut-off point when they won't cover<br>
you."<br>
19:54 < kanzure> ACProdigy: there's a current system at the moment<br>
19:54 < kanzure> MattZeroSeven: are you mccabe?<br>
19:54 < ACProdigy> kanzure: But its limited to office space owners,<br>
is that going to be extended or..?<br>
19:54 < kanzure> "Is this pretty much what we will need then?"<br>
19:54 < kanzure> good question<br>
19:55 < kanzure> "Does it cover the assets of the hackerspace?"<br>
19:55 < kanzure> "theft is in there"<br>
19:55 < darkcontrast> we're discussing who would have unattended<br>
access to the space.. but what a "member" means is coming up<br>
19:55 < ACProdigy> Surveillance, security?<br>
19:55 < darkcontrast> and we still haven't discussed what it means to<br>
be a part of ahs<br>
19:55 < ACProdigy> Right<br>
19:55 < ACProdigy> I'm just curious, some people have very odd hours<br>
of availability<br>
19:55 < ACProdigy> (Myself included)<br>
19:55 < kanzure> "Is AHS going to own the equipment? Some of the<br>
equipment is owned by AHS, some of it is not owned by AHS. What<br>
equipment we own, we will have policies. What equipment we don't own,<br>
will depend on the kindness or policies of them."<br>
19:56 < kanzure> ACProdigy: yeah martin keeps skating around that<br>
19:56 < darkcontrast> the membership question is a big one and we're<br>
getting to it<br>
19:56 < kanzure> "If Les' CNC machine gets destroyed somehow. Your<br>
liability insurance would take cover of that? If we break the machine,<br>
we would fix it. I would rather fix it through the general fund.<br>
Touching your insurance is dangerous. If we have a fund by then, we'd<br>
have to repair things, and get materials."<br>
19:56 < ACProdigy> Alright<br>
19:57 < ACProdigy> Just getting some clarification<br>
19:57 < kanzure> "If we build these machines, we should be able to fix<br>
them. We want to replace them with open source hardware."<br>
19:57 < kanzure> "What are we responsible for and how does it split out?"<br>
19:58 < kanzure> "We want to keep it cheap and focusing on what we<br>
love to do and building this community. We need to balance these two<br>
things."<br>
19:58 < kanzure> "Our neighbors and how we interact with them."<br>
19:58 < kanzure> "Are we going to talk about this? We need to be<br>
careful about what you say about this."<br>
19:59 < kanzure> "We exist as an entity, as an LLC. We are in here. We<br>
have neighbors that are not a direct part of this LLC or project. They<br>
have their own projects to do. Within the enDesign space, and also in<br>
the community as a whole. There's Austin Robot Group, there's Austin<br>
Planetarium. There are people who are outside of AHS. Dorkbot. That<br>
sort of thing."<br>
19:59 < kanzure> "It's really important how we feel about ourselves<br>
and project ourselves and our responsibilities to them. So, you know."<br>
20:00 < Halogenoalkane> yes<br>
20:00 < Halogenoalkane> I like that motto<br>
20:00 < kanzure> "One of the first p[rinciples of noisebridge, and one<br>
of the first principles of the NY Resistor, and other hackerspaces, is<br>
kind of a corny statement. If you've seen Bill and Ted's excellent<br>
adventure: Be excellent to one another. It is to hold yourself to the<br>
highest standard of behavior."<br>
20:00 < kanzure> "Fight against the impulse to be mean. Not mean, but<br>
to be vindictive. Who will be the George Carlin to be the mentor?"<br>
20:00 < kanzure> les volunteers<br>
20:01 < kanzure> "We each have to be our own. As corny as it sounds,<br>
when Google started, they said "Do no evil". We know how that turned<br>
out. We're still playing. It's a good start. Google tries hard."<br>
20:01 < kanzure> "So, who are our neighbors?"<br>
20:01 < kanzure> "It's also how we deal with each other. This is my<br>
opinion only. I would like our organization to start with a statement<br>
that we run everything to, very much like "Be excellent". To actually<br>
make it part of who we are and what we do."<br>
20:01 < kanzure> "Another thing that is simple and easy as a sort of<br>
political statement, that I liked a lot, as a motto, is Make a<br>
Difference."<br>
20:01 < kanzure> "Add something."<br>
20:02 < kanzure> "I could argue that Steve Jobs made a difference, but<br>
he's still an asshole."<br>
20:02 < ACProdigy> Agreed<br>
20:02 < kanzure> "But it's true, make a difference. So this is<br>
something that is important to me personally. I would like a consensus<br>
on it. It's also the community. Within and without, and within and<br>
outside of this organization, you know, we for example, we could have<br>
someone in here who wants to have an office, and if they don't want to<br>
be associated with AHS, and they want to collaborate, let's not be<br>
assholes and say since they didn't become a part of our organization,<br>
let's not shun them."<br>
20:03 < kanzure> "Well, I am going to take my homes and go somewhere<br>
else. Let's not do that. We understand this is a weird situation. A<br>
hackerspace within a hackerspace. We're trying to define this, and we<br>
don't know what that is."<br>
20:03 < ACProdigy> Kanzure, your messages are being truncaged.<br>
20:03 < ACProdigy> truncated*<br>
20:03 < kanzure> "Let's just do our best and try not to be an asshole<br>
even when other neighbors who are not in this space are causing<br>
problems."<br>
20:03 < kanzure> ACProdigy: i'll post the full log from my end eventually<br>
20:03 < ACProdigy> That's fine<br>
20:03 < ACProdigy> :D<br>
20:03 < kanzure> "How about combining the two proposed mottos? Be<br>
excellent and make a difference, we could merge it into Make Things<br>
Better."<br>
20:04 < kanzure> "Make a difference and be excellent."<br>
20:04 < kanzure> "Be excellent to each other."<br>
20:04 < kanzure> "Does anyone have an objection to that?"<br>
20:04 < ACProdigy> Both are good.<br>
20:04 < kanzure> "Make excellence."<br>
20:04 -!- Halogenoalkane [~<a href="mailto:chatzilla@74.196.116.125">chatzilla@74.196.116.125</a>] has quit [Quit:<br>
ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]<br>
20:04 < kanzure> "I think it should be both. I think we should<br>
specifically say make a difference and be excellent."<br>
20:04 < kanzure> "That's what our motto will be."<br>
20:04 < kanzure> "What is the acronym?"<br>
20:04 < ACProdigy> MAD and BE.<br>
20:04 < ACProdigy> hahaha<br>
20:05 < kanzure> "I think it should be both. I think we should<br>
specifically say make a difference and be excellent."<br>
20:05 < ACProdigy> BE MAD.<br>
20:05 < darkcontrast> BE MAD?<br>
20:05 < ACProdigy> >.><br>
20:05 < darkcontrast> haha<br>
20:05 < kanzure> "Backronyms are evil."<br>
20:05 < ACProdigy> Agreed.<br>
20:05 < ACProdigy> Quick question<br>
20:05 < kanzure> go ahead<br>
20:05 < ACProdigy> Are you still going to be going in ~30-45 minutes?<br>
I may head that way with some others that are interested.<br>
20:06 < kanzure> um<br>
20:06 < kanzure> good question<br>
20:06 < darkcontrast> i'll be here<br>
20:06 < kanzure> "So basically, if there's a sign that says do not<br>
park in this space. For the love of god, don't park there. Even if it<br>
isn't in front of the space it is referring to."<br>
20:06 < kanzure> "Also be nice."<br>
20:06 < darkcontrast> i'll be here until 11p fyi<br>
20:06 < ACProdigy> Well<br>
20:06 < ACProdigy> That's great and all (seriously)<br>
20:06 < ACProdigy> But will the meeting still be going on by then, do you think?<br>
20:07 < darkcontrast> kanzure: are you logging as well<br>
20:07 < kanzure> yes<br>
20:07 < kanzure> john griessen is passing around a co-op proposal :)<br>
20:07 < darkcontrast> i would bet the meeting will still be going on :)<br>
20:07 < darkcontrast> and i would bet that many of us will still be<br>
around willing to talk about the metting<br>
20:07 < kanzure> "There are other people in enDesign. There is one<br>
currently in progress. I can't really detail even here because we're<br>
being webcast. There's a lot of activity, models being made. That<br>
project that is out there is a secret. And they trust us to not talk<br>
about their secret. As of right now, how many organizations are<br>
working in this one space."<br>
20:08 < ACProdigy> Alright, I'll be leaving Leander/CedarPark shortly then.<br>
20:08 < kanzure> "We want to talk about our neighbors. If someone is<br>
doing film production, you don't want to be photographing their props,<br>
their storyboard or anything."<br>
20:08 < kanzure> "Some of these same people might be willing to teach<br>
a casting class, or how to make fake weapons, or whatever."<br>
20:08 < kanzure> "They are all really good and nice people, so please<br>
stay on their good side. They have the same abilities to do in here<br>
just like everyone does."<br>
20:09 < kanzure> "It's 3k of shared space. The other is divided up<br>
between the workshops and storage rooms. If you respect them, they<br>
will respect you."<br>
20:09 < kanzure> "Other folks include the Austin Plantearium board who<br>
make props and so on. There's an audio company called OpenLabs that I<br>
do work for, they come in and do things like on halloween they convert<br>
a 40-foot long limo into an Enterprise Shuttlecraft."<br>
20:09 < kanzure> "There's a couple people who aren't here tonight.<br>
Justin is one. Different Justin than the one that is here."<br>
20:09 < kanzure> "I'm probably going to forget someone. Kim and Tom."<br>
20:10 < darkcontrast> can you guys hear ok?<br>
20:10 < kanzure> "They will come in and do things, and they will look<br>
like they are at home for a reason. They have been coming in for a<br>
year and a half already."<br>
20:10 < ACProdigy> Yes<br>
20:10 < ACProdigy> Its quite clear actually.<br>
20:10 < ACProdigy> The echos have resolved themselves well.<br>
20:10 < kanzure> "When this project is completed, more space will be<br>
open. More of these storage units will be constructed."<br>
20:10 < darkcontrast> well, les anyway<br>
20:10 < kanzure> "We'll have different people come in. Respect their<br>
space, respect their stuff, and if you want to touch something that is<br>
not yours, don't. At least ask them, and talk with them. They are<br>
open, they will let you talk and play with them."<br>
20:11 < darkcontrast> i think we got the extra laptops turned down :)<br>
20:11 < kanzure> "AHS stuff will be very well labelled. We'll set it<br>
up so that you know what you're working with, getting with them, and<br>
deciding whether or not you are authorized."<br>
20:11 < ACProdigy> Extra laptops?<br>
20:11 < ACProdigy> Was that the same thing that was on the mailing list?<br>
20:11 < kanzure> "With the exception of larger machine tools, anything<br>
that will be stored out in the open will be used by anyone in here,<br>
but that's not always the case. You'll label that kind of stuff."<br>
20:11 < kanzure> "There will be a lock-out on the switch to it so you<br>
couldn't use it anyway."<br>
20:11 < kanzure> "Let's move on."<br>
20:11 < kanzure> "I know you guys are getting restless."<br>
20:11 < kanzure> "This is the biggie."<br>
20:12 < kanzure> "What defines an AHS member? We literally talked<br>
about this over and over again. Because there are something is solid.<br>
There are a few things that we know ar esolid, and then there's some<br>
things that are fuzzy."<br>
20:12 < darkcontrast> i mean we got the echoes taken care of by<br>
turning down other players :)<br>
20:12 < kanzure> "Looking at other hackerspaces, what we've noticed is<br>
that, this applies to co-working as well. There are two levels of<br>
membership. You get your own dedicated space to store or do whatever<br>
you want, and you get 24/7 key in this case, but it will end up being<br>
a keycard. Right now it's a physical key and an alarm code."<br>
20:13 < kanzure> "Each individual has a key and an alarm code. So<br>
there's that level of membership. People who we.. I don't want to be..<br>
stakeholders. Trusted and responsible. There's that level of<br>
membership."<br>
20:13 < ACProdigy> What is the issue of Security/DVR etc.<br>
20:13 < kanzure> "We don't want to shut out people who want to come in<br>
and take classes, use the space on a less-formal basis."<br>
20:13 < darkcontrast> kanzure: do you know where that coop proposal is?<br>
20:13 < kanzure> "How best to do this? My proposal, and looking at how<br>
other hackerspaces do this, is to have kind of a second-level<br>
membership that says we'll give you the same discounts on classes, the<br>
same discounts on supplies, and we'll help you order supplies."<br>
20:13 < kanzure> darkcontrast: yeah i stole a copy i'll type up<br>
20:13 < kanzure> or pester john to send it out to the list<br>
20:14 < ACProdigy> wait wait<br>
20:14 < ACProdigy> wait<br>
20:14 < ACProdigy> On that note<br>
20:14 < ACProdigy> actually<br>
20:14 < ACProdigy> Nevermind.<br>
20:14 < kanzure> i like the co-op idea too<br>
20:14 < ACProdigy> [nod nod]<br>
20:14 < kanzure> "The hackerspace will always be open and free to<br>
anyone who wants to visit. This excellence extends to anyone who wants<br>
to come by. Always have internet for anyone who walks in."<br>
20:14 < kanzure> "We'll let them have a comfortable space to work in a<br>
project. But we won't let them use our resources without paying the<br>
bills."<br>
20:15 < darkcontrast> myself as well.. i was arguing strongly for it,<br>
but there are practical reasons for needing a legal entity.. they're<br>
not entirely mutually exclusive<br>
20:15 < kanzure> "Something has to happen to help support that. That's<br>
what these tiers of membership are good."<br>
20:15 < kanzure> darkcontrast: yeah co-ops are still legal entities<br>
20:15 < ACProdigy> brb.<br>
20:15 < darkcontrast> ack, sorry i keep meaning collective<br>
20:15 < kanzure> "I also had an idea for a sliding-scale for a general<br>
membership scale. If you can't afford it, we'll make it cheap. If you<br>
can't afford it, you shouldn't be locked out. Nobody should be locked<br>
out for a lack of funds, unless we can't support them. If we get to<br>
the point where we have nothing in the bank, then we can't."<br>
20:16 < kanzure> "I don't have any urge to support people that way. I<br>
don't have a feeling that everybody should be able to. You gotta<br>
wanna, and if you wanna, you can pay a little bit."<br>
20:16 < kanzure> "This gets into so much liability and danger<br>
possibility that having people come in and casually.."<br>
20:16 < kanzure> "What defines an AHS member? Privledges? Access?<br>
Someone who walks in might be able to access our lounge might be able<br>
to access our room."<br>
20:16 < kanzure> "Are you seeing the analogy to co-working as a direct<br>
analogy, I wasn't seeing any receptionist. But staff is going to be on<br>
a volunteer basis, not a paid staff."<br>
20:17 < kanzure> "We can't afford a paid staff, but we can't do that<br>
right now. It has to be a large scale to get to ap aid staff."<br>
20:17 < kanzure> "One thing that we have to remember is that everyone<br>
starts off with cash."<br>
20:17 < kanzure> "Your occassional user, your junior membership which<br>
is what you were just talking about it, you can't get 24/7, you can<br>
get here when there's some one else, your 24/7 senior membership. You<br>
don't need staff."<br>
20:18 < kanzure> "You have some device, someone here can make one. You<br>
sign up on the web, you have a code, you have to punch in a code in,<br>
then you know how many times this person to get in here. I wouldn't<br>
want someone on the web to have a code."<br>
20:18 < kanzure> "There needs to be a process."<br>
20:18 < kanzure> "This basically boils down to a trusted person for<br>
any visitor to come in and work on anything."<br>
20:18 < ACProdigy> A process that is confirmed in-person<br>
20:18 < ACProdigy> By an official AHS rep<br>
20:18 < kanzure> "If someone wants to pull up and use the internet<br>
connection, and they've got the passcode, that's fine if they aren't<br>
doing anything illegal. Coming in here and using tools, or getting<br>
into mischief, there must be a trusted person here at all times."<br>
20:19 < kanzure> "Those visitors are.. the trusted person is in charge<br>
of them, and is i responsible for them ultimately."<br>
20:19 < kanzure> "I might be a good example of one of those junior<br>
memberships. I have been here for the past few weeks on Saturdays. I<br>
don't think we put policies in place for putting other people in here<br>
with those same values for contributing to the group who may not be<br>
willing or able financially."<br>
20:20 < kanzure> "Your method sounds perfect. You get very well<br>
associated with that are trusted, and then you get privledges. You<br>
don't get membership privledges with shallow touchy acquiantaces. You<br>
have to be known first."<br>
20:20 < kanzure> "Split merit system?"<br>
20:20 < ACProdigy> Headed that wayQ!<br>
20:21 -!- ACProdigy [~<a href="mailto:Tim@70.114.232.18">Tim@70.114.232.18</a>] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]<br>
20:21 < kanzure> "You don't want someone to just be able to pay money<br>
and walk in. You also want a merit system where at least some people<br>
in the group say that this person has shown the traits or behaviors<br>
that we expect out of our membership. Length of time. Can someone not<br>
randomly find your site and say, boy that looks interesting, come down<br>
and be a member? How would that work?"<br>
20:21 < kanzure> "Well, I just came here off the internet. That's me exactly."<br>
20:22 < kanzure> "We are currently operating as the stakeholders, the<br>
people who put in the lease to Les. We have to be present, we are<br>
responsible for anything our visitors do. Right now, as we sit here,<br>
literally speaking, he he he and she are responsible for all of you.<br>
Owe my money. Les isn't responsible for anyone, except the four of<br>
you."<br>
20:22 < kanzure> "Now, from what I'm hearing, it sounds like a<br>
division such as stake holders, causal membership that comes in and<br>
out that doesn't have the high-privledge, and visitors, are all<br>
acceptable. A visitor has a low level of access."<br>
20:22 < kanzure> "In another hackerspace that I've been to, a visitor<br>
must be tagged with someone else. What happened in that city, Chicago,<br>
it very quickly became elitist. People were being locked out because<br>
nobody would vouch for the new people. This is a probllem. You've got<br>
to be leet to join the club."<br>
20:23 < kanzure> "Noisebridge in San Francisco requires.."<br>
20:23 < kanzure> "Has anyone been to Free Geek in Portland? They<br>
started off with a non-profit model. They had a specific industry, it<br>
was a community effort. If you still go there, it's very much of a<br>
come on in and start working on, and we won't even care what your name<br>
is. You can just start doing stuff."<br>
20:23 < kanzure> "I don't think that as long as there is sufficient<br>
supervision, I don't think that there's any problem with that. What<br>
tools require a higher level of supervision, a training course, and<br>
what would the starting be with visitors don't touch pretty much?"<br>
20:24 < kanzure> "Les' plan for this space. Many of you might be<br>
aware. This space has a plan. He has a plan for the way this space is<br>
going to look. It's a beautiful plan. That office that he has will be<br>
a reception break room. Next to it are going to be three bathrooms,<br>
one with dishwashers and a shower and laundry. Then there's this<br>
conference room. When it's cleaned and done, there's not tooo much<br>
mayhem you can do."<br>
20:25 < kanzure> "Something I want to point out, the co-working<br>
example, one of the things that pisses me off about co-working, for me<br>
to even check-out the space, a lot of coworking facility want me to<br>
pay $30 to check it out. Part of it is that we need to be open to<br>
having guests and like here's the space, here's the tool that you can<br>
use. But you're not going to be using a table saw, or cutting some<br>
drywall with the rtablesaw."<br>
20:25 < kanzure> "We need to sit down with les and figure out what<br>
tools need what kind of training and who's going to do that training.<br>
Most people are competent enough to know that they can't use a table<br>
saw, but there are going to be those random people who think it's<br>
fine."<br>
20:25 < kanzure> "But there are some people that need to be told."<br>
20:26 < kanzure> "So, I'm typing up some of these things and I'm going<br>
to read it back."<br>
20:26 < kanzure> "The stakeholders are obviously a responsible member<br>
with a stake in this space. At the moment it's primarily monetarily.<br>
They are responsible for the keycodes and the alarm. And uh, don't<br>
really have anything else, they form a decision making ability because<br>
we have this responsibility that has been put down."<br>
20:27 < kanzure> "And regardless of what we pick, like an LLC, it-<br>
every member- we really do genuinely care what every member, and even<br>
some random outside member, we want your feeddback. This is not about<br>
a company, it's about building a community."<br>
20:27 < kanzure> "<br>
20:27 < kanzure> "We can't lock you out of this building, and we're<br>
not going to try. Ultimately this will be a policy written by the<br>
directors of the company. Essentially, right now, we need to get a<br>
sense of right here whether or not you are closed or open. Can you<br>
come through another member, or from the outside? The policy around<br>
it."<br>
20:28 < kanzure> "It was really nice by SXSW to just kind of show up.<br>
They just kind of came by to see what things were about."<br>
20:28 < kanzure> "Those in favor of a closed, invite system." Okay, nobody.<br>
20:28 < kanzure> uh<br>
20:28 < kanzure> "How about a slightly closed, system that allows<br>
walk-in access" Vast-majority.<br>
20:28 < kanzure> "Fully-open system that requires no other, just a<br>
walk-in system with supervision."<br>
20:29 < kanzure> insufficient resolution<br>
20:29 < kanzure> "There is some danger in not being able to insure a<br>
very open organization. Although based on other hackerspaces, I know<br>
that it can be insured. It can be bought."<br>
20:29 < kanzure> uh<br>
20:29 < kanzure> is anyone still in here<br>
20:29 -!- Irssi: #austinhackerspace: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0<br>
halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]<br>
20:30 < kanzure> "Can someone, yes or no, come to this organization<br>
without knowing someone prior?"<br>
20:31 < kanzure> "It's a little of each. As a new person, you would be<br>
restricted to whoever is in the room. I was only talking about how you<br>
find out and how you get into the organization. Step-by-step. The next<br>
step is what you are talkikng about. You come in, you're random, you<br>
come in, you want to maybe use the equipment. This is where whte<br>
policy comes in. They say that you can't use the equipment without<br>
talking for someone for an hour. That's the whole policy issue. How do<br>
people get into the organization?"<br>
20:31 < kanzure> "How do they get to use the equipment?"<br>
20:31 < kanzure> "It's open."<br>
20:32 < darkcontrast> i suspect we have lurkers :)<br>
20:32 < kanzure> "Well, we have to know them and get to know if they<br>
are capable of using the equipment. It's open in the sense that<br>
someone just sees our website, like Steve, he's just like holy crap<br>
there's a hackerspace in Austin and just show up, and we saw a guy out<br>
of place outside, and literally that's how he showed up."<br>
20:32 < kanzure> darkcontrast: i need to leave<br>
20:32 < kanzure> Also the wifi seems to be broken.<br>
20:33 < plars> if you're asking if anyone's still in the channel, yes<br>
I'm on and off while trying to get my short clones to bed, and really<br>
appreciating the transcript kanzure!<br>
20:33 < darkcontrast> how's that?<br>
20:33 < darkcontrast> wifi seems to be ok on mine and ustream laptop<br>
20:33 < MattZeroSeven> Kanzure is fussing with his laptop, will be back in a min<br>
20:33 < kanzure> actually..<br>
20:33 < MattZeroSeven> back ;)<br>
20:33 < kanzure> i need to go<br>
20:33 < kanzure> blah<br>
20:34 < darkcontrast> i can try to take over<br>
20:34 < kanzure> yes please :)<br>
20:35 < darkcontrast> i'm going to do more summarizing :)<br>
20:36 < darkcontrast> moving on to discussing what membership dues<br>
are, and what each mean<br>
20:36 < darkcontrast> the fixed costs are:<br>
20:36 < darkcontrast> $900/mo rent<br>
20:36 < darkcontrast> first and last months' rent has been paid<br>
20:37 < darkcontrast> every 6mo, ~$2k for insurance<br>
20:37 < darkcontrast> ~$25/mo for AC in the offices<br>
20:39 < darkcontrast> $1308/mo<br>
20:39 < darkcontrast> based on estimates<br>
20:40 < darkcontrast> noisebridge has ~300 active members, each paying<br>
~$20-40/mo<br>
20:40 -!- Tired2 [~<a href="mailto:no@67-198-30-75.dyn.grandenetworks.net">no@67-198-30-75.dyn.grandenetworks.net</a>] has joined<br>
#austinhackerspace<br>
20:41 < darkcontrast> we estimate that there are approximately 30<br>
interested, active parties in ahs<br>
20:42 < darkcontrast> restrictions on the offices is 4 people max..<br>
which translates to about $80/mo with AC<br>
20:43 < Tired2> to rent an office?<br>
20:43 < darkcontrast> does it make more sense to have 2 tiers of<br>
members, or to "flatten" the fee?<br>
20:43 < darkcontrast> Tired2: yes<br>
20:43 < Tired2> thats not so bad<br>
20:44 < darkcontrast> should we allow those outside endesign (and ahs)<br>
to come in for laser cutting, prototyping, etc?<br>
20:45 < Tired2> whats the monthly for non-offices?<br>
20:45 < darkcontrast> les very much wants those within the endesign<br>
space to continue to have access to the equipment within the space<br>
(based on training, etc)<br>
20:45 < darkcontrast> we're discussing what, if anything, we should<br>
charge for non-office use<br>
20:47 < Tired2> whats endesign? (sorry, I'm almost up to speed)<br>
20:48 < darkcontrast> endesign is the name of the larger space, the warehouse<br>
20:48 < darkcontrast> there are several different groups within endesign<br>
20:53 < Tired2> anyone building anything cool yet?<br>
20:53 < darkcontrast> discussing within the member/due question, does<br>
it make sense to have a sliding scale? does it make sense to have 2, 3<br>
tiers?<br>
20:54 < Tired2> is anyone else in this conversation, or just me?<br>
20:55 < Tired2> I thought I came in in the middle<br>
20:55 < darkcontrast> ACProdigy left a while ago :)<br>
20:55 < Tired2> ah, well i guess I'll answer<br>
20:55 < Tired2> I dont think I could pay 80/mo for access...<br>
20:56 < darkcontrast> we'll post this entire conversation (i hope)<br>
20:56 < Tired2> whats the fee for non-office members, who just might<br>
want to cut something once a year?<br>
20:56 < MattZeroSeven> It is being recorded<br>
20:56 < plars> darkcontrast: that would be great, I'm only getting<br>
bits and pieces<br>
20:56 < darkcontrast> there's a consensus (i believe), that we do not<br>
want to lock anyone out, just because they can't pay<br>
20:57 < darkcontrast> the irc convo, not the ustream .. stream<br>
20:57 < Tired2> well, assuming they contribute something of use<br>
20:57 < darkcontrast> *irc convo is being recorded, ustream is not<br>
20:57 < MattZeroSeven> Oops, my bad<br>
20:57 < plars> Tired2: I'm kinda in the same boat as you, I'm not near<br>
enough, nor do I have enough spare time that I could be there often<br>
enough, but paying a fee to use a few things that I don't have access<br>
to otherwise, coming to occasional events, etc would be very appealing<br>
20:57 < darkcontrast> right.. we're discussing what makes a guest<br>
different than a non-office member<br>
20:58 -!- WebGuest [~<a href="mailto:fn-javach@70.114.144.100">fn-javach@70.114.144.100</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
20:58 < darkcontrast> this is my concern, that i never want anyone to<br>
not have access, because they don't have some cash<br>
20:58 < Tired2> I did a business model like this in the past, and the<br>
numbers were hard to add up... I was going larger scale, with machines<br>
and classes and such, but I was planning on a module based fee...<br>
20:58 -!- WebGuest [~<a href="mailto:fn-javach@70.114.144.100">fn-javach@70.114.144.100</a>] has quit [Client Quit]<br>
20:59 < Tired2> so, maybe a member gets access + storage + an hour or<br>
so per month on the cnc's<br>
20:59 < Tired2> maybe 'bring your own consumables' or something, i dunno<br>
20:59 < darkcontrast> we haven't even really considered how we're<br>
going to pay for anything beyond office space<br>
21:00 < Tired2> Considered sponsorships?<br>
21:00 < Tired2> local Universities, businesses...<br>
21:00 -!- TheHast [~<a href="mailto:gilbert_e@70.114.144.100">gilbert_e@70.114.144.100</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
21:00 < Tired2> maybe down the road a bit<br>
21:01 < darkcontrast> we are very aggressively seeking donations and<br>
grants, and it's very likely that we'll be holding fundraisers,<br>
classes, etc to raise extra money<br>
21:01 < darkcontrast> we may or may not have some things in the works<br>
already (cash as well as supplies)<br>
21:01 < Tired2> you should offer courses on the cnc and such, charge<br>
$40 or something, and its like a license to use it<br>
21:02 < darkcontrast> absolutely<br>
21:02 < darkcontrast> martin definitely has classes planned<br>
21:03 < darkcontrast> martin has set up a business bank account with<br>
merchant clearing<br>
21:04 < darkcontrast> does anyone want to use paypal to pay any dues?<br>
21:05 < darkcontrast> e-check, cash, check are all free.. visa/MC costs us 2.8%<br>
21:05 < Tired2> go for a cash discount like liqour stores do<br>
21:06 < darkcontrast> yes, the cash discount was discussed<br>
21:06 < Tired2> or a 'processing fee' works<br>
21:06 < darkcontrast> but, because this is a "suggested donation", is an fyi<br>
21:06 < Tired2> ah.. yes.<br>
21:07 < Tired2> what equipment things are ya'll looking for?<br>
21:07 < darkcontrast> Tired2: are you on our mailing list, etc?<br>
21:07 < Tired2> any type of stuff in particular?<br>
21:07 < Tired2> nope, dont think so<br>
21:07 < darkcontrast> we're not looking for anything specifically..<br>
21:07 -!- WebGuest [~<a href="mailto:fn-javach@cpe-24-28-77-36.austin.res.rr.com">fn-javach@cpe-24-28-77-36.austin.res.rr.com</a>] has<br>
joined #austinhackerspace<br>
21:08 < darkcontrast><br>
<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/austin-hacker-space/topics?hl=en" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/austin-hacker-space/topics?hl=en</a><br>
21:08 -!- WebGuest is now known as Anvilx<br>
21:08 < darkcontrast> is our main discussion list.. we also have<br>
facebook group, twitter, etc<br>
21:08 < darkcontrast> <a href="http://austinhackerspace.org" target="_blank">http://austinhackerspace.org</a><br>
21:09 < Tired2> yea, i saw the site<br>
21:09 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #austinhackerspace to: Welcome<br>
to the Austin Hackerspace IRC channel - Join us Tue Apr 13 at 7pm to<br>
discuss our legal formation and membership details! Wiki:<br>
<a href="http://austinhackerspace.org" target="_blank">http://austinhackerspace.org</a> Mailing list:<br>
<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/austin-hacker-space/topics?hl=en" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/austin-hacker-space/topics?hl=en</a><br>
21:10 < darkcontrast> please join! come by!<br>
21:10 < darkcontrast> a lot of us will be here until 10 tonight.. i'll<br>
be here until 11 myself<br>
21:11 < Tired2> yea, I'm trying to keep up with it for now, maybe come<br>
by in the future<br>
21:11 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #austinhackerspace to: Welcome<br>
to the Austin Hackerspace IRC channel - Join us Tue Apr 13 at 7pm to<br>
discuss our legal formation and membership details! Wiki:<br>
<a href="http://austinhackerspace.org" target="_blank">http://austinhackerspace.org</a> Mailing list:<br>
<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/austin-hacker-space/topics?hl=en" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/austin-hacker-space/topics?hl=en</a> We<br>
will be here until 10pm tonight!<br>
21:11 < Tired2> busy time for me currently, but it will settle down<br>
21:11 < Tired2> plus I'm in San Marcos, so its a 30 min drive<br>
21:12 < plars> yeah, round rock here, about 30 min. from me as well<br>
21:13 < Tired2> so, is there a communal junk pile planned?<br>
21:17 < darkcontrast> it depends on what you mean by junk :)<br>
21:17 < darkcontrast> eg, we don't want old crt's that we'll have to<br>
pay a recycling fee on<br>
21:18 < darkcontrast> but an individual may want them.. honestly, we<br>
haven't really discussed it<br>
21:18 < darkcontrast> for now, the best bet is to hit up the mailing list<br>
21:19 < Tired2> cool<br>
21:20 < Tired2> got a scope and function gen already?<br>
21:22 < darkcontrast> i don't believe so<br>
21:22 < darkcontrast> i've got a couple cheap usb scopes<br>
21:25 < Tired2> cool<br>
21:26 < Tired2> ill keep it in mind if i make it out<br>
21:26 < Tired2> i have at least an extra, someone would want it<br>
21:26 < Tired2> maybe 2<br>
21:27 < darkcontrast> even if you bring something out, you retain<br>
ownership, can dictate how/when it's used, etc<br>
21:28 < Tired2> cool<br>
21:29 < darkcontrast> so to recap:<br>
21:30 < darkcontrast> we have to decided to form an LLC, with martin,<br>
matt, and mike initial stakeholders (with a board to be decided).. we<br>
may or may not seek to gain 501c3 (or some other nonprofit status) at<br>
a later time<br>
21:31 -!- genehacker<br>
[<a href="mailto:genehacker@wireless-128-62-36-212.public.utexas.edu">genehacker@wireless-128-62-36-212.public.utexas.edu</a>] has joined<br>
#austinhackerspace<br>
21:31 < darkcontrast> currently, there are two membership levels:<br>
stakeholders, who have office space and 24/7 access at $75/mo<br>
21:31 < darkcontrast> there is also a associate membership level at a<br>
suggested cost of $40/mo - which is negotiable based on circumstances<br>
21:32 < darkcontrast> guests are free, but will need a member with<br>
them at all times<br>
21:33 < darkcontrast> martin is posting more details on the wiki at<br>
<a href="http://www.austinhackerspace.org/events/generalmeeting/04132010" target="_blank">http://www.austinhackerspace.org/events/generalmeeting/04132010</a><br>
21:36 < TheHast> What do you think about offsetting membership costs<br>
with material donations/helpfulness to the community? Where people<br>
just interested in making stuff for themselves will pay full<br>
membership, while people who focus their time on others get a reduced<br>
membership?<br>
21:37 < TheHast> And I imagine that said usefulness should be awarded<br>
by the community, like voted upon by everyone.<br>
21:37 < Tired2> that might hard to pull off<br>
21:37 < TheHast> yha, now that I actually think about it<br>
21:38 < TheHast> I can see members getting angry that they weren't picked.<br>
21:38 < Tired2> yea<br>
21:38 < darkcontrast> we did talk about the fact that donating time,<br>
work, etc, could qualify someone for membership.. but my concern is<br>
that we will need to determine who and how we determine this.. to make<br>
it objective<br>
21:38 < Tired2> i was curious on software...<br>
21:39 < Tired2> what is everyone using for cad/cam these days?<br>
21:39 < Tired2> that is affordable that is<br>
21:39 < darkcontrast> it would either need a very large vote, eg, it's<br>
unanimous that this person has donated so much time it's stupid that<br>
they're not a member.. or, this is specifically, objectively what's<br>
required<br>
21:39 < darkcontrast> or both<br>
21:39 < TheHast> yha...<br>
21:41 < Tired2> there should be a 'wanted items' list or something<br>
21:41 < darkcontrast> that's a discussion for next time<br>
21:41 < Tired2> some are obvious, but im sure some are not<br>
21:41 < darkcontrast> i believe there's a wishlist<br>
21:41 < Tired2> yea... thats the word :)<br>
21:41 < TheHast> We could set it at a specific cost per hour, like $1<br>
off your membership each hour you help someone else, and the time<br>
would be signed off by the person you help.<br>
21:42 < darkcontrast> <a href="http://www.austinhackerspace.org/wishlist" target="_blank">http://www.austinhackerspace.org/wishlist</a><br>
21:42 < Tired2> still wont pay the bills though<br>
21:42 < TheHast> sorry if I'm typing so slowing, space bar is gone...<br>
21:42 < TheHast> have to use the little button nub under it atm.<br>
21:43 < TheHast> as far as the wishlist goes...<br>
21:43 < Tired2> add keyboard to the wishlist<br>
21:43 < TheHast> lol... I'm getting a new one tomorrow (it's on my laptop...)<br>
21:44 < darkcontrast> personally, i'd rather not have this turn into a<br>
big paperwork thing, but barter is a very big part of what we're doing<br>
21:44 < TheHast> I'll brb getting a keybord<br>
21:44 < Martyn> WOW<br>
21:44 < Martyn> Does anyone on the IRC channel want to be an associate member?<br>
21:45 < Tired2> not currently :-/<br>
21:45 < Tired2> I like the idea though<br>
21:45 < Tired2> just not in need currently<br>
21:45 < Tired2> I do want to help out though, cause it sounds like a good thing<br>
21:46 < Tired2> I have this thing where I keep stuff I feel is useful<br>
if its free/cheap<br>
21:46 < Tired2> cause I know someone will want it<br>
21:46 < TheHast> Keybord!<br>
21:47 < Tired2> i.e. keyboards, mice, lcd monitors with bad backlights, etc<br>
21:47 < Tired2> some more useful than others<br>
21:47 < Tired2> but some very nice still<br>
21:47 < TheHast> Ok, I saw on the wishlist the need for some cat5<br>
cable, have you ever looked at a scrap yard for it?<br>
21:47 < darkcontrast> especially right now (and i hope forever), want<br>
people to come by if they have any slight interest at all (without<br>
cost)<br>
21:48 < darkcontrast> i don't know if anyone has even looked at the wishlist :)<br>
21:48 < Tired2> i did<br>
21:49 < Tired2> I have some old SGI computers, but they dont run<br>
anything but old ass irix<br>
21:49 < Tired2> which makes them not worth the power they take<br>
21:49 < darkcontrast> i would bet we can come up with quite a bit of<br>
cat5 if we made a campaign for it<br>
21:50 < TheHast> I'm just saying, my entire house I wired with cat5/6<br>
cable we got from a metal scrap yard up north. We paid the weight in<br>
copper for it.<br>
21:50 < darkcontrast> we can certainly emulate sgi hardware, or irix,<br>
but quite possibly we could have someone interested in the hardware<br>
itself<br>
21:50 < darkcontrast> cat5 with insulation and everything? :)<br>
21:50 < Tired2> yea, they sell it by weight<br>
21:50 < TheHast> It's not low quality/old either. We found that<br>
building companies dumped their extra wired there all the time.<br>
21:50 < darkcontrast> you could certainly pay for a membership by<br>
selling cheap cat5 to our members!<br>
21:51 < Tired2> thats where I buy motors and stuff<br>
21:51 < Tired2> junk yard :P<br>
21:51 < darkcontrast> ahhh i see<br>
21:51 < TheHast> AMP, or whatever it's called now?<br>
21:51 < Tired2> the one i go to is in San marcos<br>
21:52 < TheHast> yha, I buy a lot at scrap yards.<br>
21:53 < TheHast> are there any computers at the building now/do we want any?<br>
21:56 < Anvilx> @The hast We have that old laptop from james. If we<br>
can just find the charger...<br>
21:58 < TheHast> well thats useless<br>
21:59 < Tired2> what brand?<br>
21:59 < darkcontrast> we have some computers, but nothing as far as servers<br>
21:59 < TheHast> some crappy old IBM laptop with most of the buttons broken<br>
21:59 < Tired2> what do you need to serve really?<br>
22:00 < TheHast> we were going to use it as a shoddy games server at our school.<br>
22:00 < darkcontrast> there's been talk of setting up a rack.. various<br>
desktops have been promised.. various vps's available from various<br>
people.. again, the mailing list is by far the best way to connect<br>
right now :)<br>
22:03 < TheHast> if we play our frys ads right, we can get a "meh"<br>
computer for around 75-80 bucks.<br>
22:03 < TheHast> talking mid-range lga775<br>
22:03 < TheHast> or i5 or whatever they are calling it<br>
22:03 -!- darkcontrast [~<a href="mailto:darkcontr@71.22.109.98">darkcontr@71.22.109.98</a>] has quit [Quit: KVIrc<br>
3.4.0 Virgo <a href="http://www.kvirc.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kvirc.net/</a>]<br>
22:05 -!- darkcontrast [~<a href="mailto:darkcontr@71.22.109.98">darkcontr@71.22.109.98</a>] has joined #austinhackerspace<br>
22:05 -!- Martyn [~<a href="mailto:martinb@71.22.109.98">martinb@71.22.109.98</a>] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]<br>
22:06 < TheHast> Is anyone project related here right now?<br>
22:06 < darkcontrast> we've talked quite a bit about collective<br>
buying.. especially from mouser/digikey/etc<br>
22:06 < darkcontrast> project related?<br>
22:07 < TheHast> ohh didnt see that you re-joined<br>
22:07 < darkcontrast> haha.. yeah, i just learned a new hotkey that<br>
closes the app<br>
22:08 < TheHast> If you press alt-f4 you get $20 in your paypall account.<br>
22:08 < darkcontrast> it's a mac, but.. :)<br>
22:12 < Tired2> which key is alt?<br>
22:15 < TheHast> So..... Lets say theoretically of course, that a<br>
certain kid at the ripe old age of 16 that is good with tools,<br>
computers, projects ect. wants to be a part of this. What would you<br>
say? I understand that one would be skeptical at the least, but I'm<br>
sure you'd find me to be at least (somewhat) mature and a productive<br>
member of this tinkering society come time. This is all about someone<br>
that doesn't exist by the way...<br>
22:15 -!- Anvilx [~<a href="mailto:fn-javach@cpe-24-28-77-36.austin.res.rr.com">fn-javach@cpe-24-28-77-36.austin.res.rr.com</a>] has<br>
quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]<br>
22:19 -!- MattZeroSeven [~<a href="mailto:Adium@71.22.109.98">Adium@71.22.109.98</a>] has left #austinhackerspace []<br>
22:21 < TheHast> I'll take the quiet as a "I don't know we'll see if<br>
we like you when you get here" response.<br>
22:21 < darkcontrast> we're still kind of figuring that out.. but<br>
unanimously, we want this to be open.. and personally, unless the<br>
person is obviously destructive, everyone is going te be welcome (with<br>
appropriate supervision/training) regardless of membership<br>
22:22 < darkcontrast> haha, no sorry, things are kind of breaking up here<br>
22:23 < TheHast> It's all good , you at the building?<br>
22:23 < darkcontrast> in a practical sense, someone needs to kind of<br>
vouch you in.. but my example was, after a couple email exchanges (and<br>
no other verification) we had some people from the toronto space come<br>
by and do some soldering/teaching.. i am absolutely against being some<br>
elitist club<br>
22:24 < darkcontrast> we're still around, but i think we're about done<br>
for tonight<br>
22:26 < TheHast> Thats cool, when do you think I can come by and check it out?<br>
22:27 < darkcontrast> we'll be here: thurs at 7pm, most of fri, all day sat<br>
22:29 < TheHast> Cool, I'm booked Friday (all day)/Saturday morning so<br>
hopefully thurs or sat. Also that Anvilx guy is my friend, he'll<br>
probably be by as well with me.<br>
22:30 < TheHast> I go to St. Andrews school, which is down the road a little.<br>
<br>
- Bryan<br>
<a href="http://heybryan.org/" target="_blank">http://heybryan.org/</a><br>
1 512 203 0507<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</blockquote></p>