I think we want a 501c3, but my accountant thinks it may fit another c better. I'm just looking for the supporting Docs to show my account how other people have done it, I don't think she understands.<br><br>Also I think hackerspaces are defined by their local community as to what they are or are not, and that can change overtime.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Adam D Bachman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adam.bachman@gmail.com">adam.bachman@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I stand corrected. It was not my intention to forcefully modify your meaning. I should've said, "what I'm hearing is, ...". I was seeking clarification on what seemed like a strict interpretation of Hackerspace doctrine (which we're both aware doesn't actually exist).<div class="im">
<div>
<br></div><div>> <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;">Tom hasn't stated what he's doing yet. So please no snap judgements</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div></div><div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;">That was my point, too. I think we're on the same page.</span></div>
<div class="im">
<div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;">> he will have problems getting certain types of funding if his focus is on education</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div></div><div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;">I (and to my knowledge, B'more Node) haven't pursued direct funding from charitable organizations, so I don't have experience in this area. Do you mean that if he has a focus on education and *is* a 501c3 he will have problems, or has a focus on education and *is not* a 501c3 he will have problems?</span></div>
<div class="im">
<div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;">> if people are respectful of each other and improve the community around them through collaboration of these things that they are a hackerspace or not</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div></div><div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;">Yes. This is pretty simply what I believe "hackerspace" to mean. Our bylaws say, "<span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: sans-serif; line-height: 19px;">Baltimore Node Corporation seeks to create and sustain an environment that promotes the creative use of technology for the benefit of art, science and culture." and we go about that by (paraphrased) "establishing and maintaining a physical space, supporting a nurturing community of makers devoted to education and collaboration, empowering members to create, experiment and invent; encouraging and supporting the sharing of research; and actively engaging with the community." - <a href="http://wiki.baltimorenode.org/index.php?title=Bylaws" target="_blank">http://wiki.baltimorenode.org/index.php?title=Bylaws</a></span></span></div>
<div><br></div><div>My point was that IRS considerations (especially since they're strictly USA centered) don't have anything to do with what is or isn't a hackerspace.</div><div><br></div><div>My apologies, again, for jumping before you said "boo".</div>
<div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>- Adam </div></font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Eric Michaud <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michaud.eric.c@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaud.eric.c@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">This also only applies to US tax law, I can't comment on other countries.<div><div></div>
<div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Eric Michaud <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michaud.eric.c@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaud.eric.c@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I didn't say he wouldn't be one of them because of those, but it's hard to show the shades of we're doing this because of X. There are many flavors, but the main thing is what are you focusing on. Are you aiming to be a Tech Shop? or something else? What also becomes difficult is if we want to share assets with another group. It's not as trivial to do so. As PSOne is filing ours shortly we found out a lot of other groups not including grant writers don't want to donate equipment or services to other groups because they either A don't know how to handle it, or B the appearance to others as to who they donated for is not a straight up traditional thought of Not-For-Profit 501c3.<br>
<br>Also Adam please don't paraphrase what I said. That is incorrect.<br><br>I stated.<div><br><br>" If that is not the case your not really being a hackerspace since the main focus is on educating the many and sharing tools."<br>
<br></div>Three things<br><br>Tom may have a very excellent reason for what he's doing. Tom hasn't stated what he's doing yet. So please no snap judgements.<br><br>The next thing is I said what I said because there are a lot of place calling themselves hackerspaces when they are clearly not. I wanted to make sure he knows that he will have problems getting certain types of funding if his focus is on education. Regardless of what form his group takes.<br>
<br>The third point is being a hackerspace is about sharing knowledge(education) and resources(tools or otherwise) with the community on a very basic level. Do you not agree with this that if people are respectful of each other and improve the community around them through collaboration of these things that they are a hackerspace or not?<br>
<br>Adam I agree with you that you don't have to be a 501c3 to be a hackerspace, I don't know where your getting that idea from. Please don't misinterpret what I'm stating is all.<br><br>I wanted to get it out that I'm not telling everyone what one is or isn't but that Tom might have problems arising later in collaborating with certain groups. It's like the GPLv2 and GPLv3. How many issues came up with licensing alone when GPLv3 came online as a tool for software licensing.<br>
<br><br>Cheers,<br><font color="#888888"><br>-Eric.</font><div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Adam D Bachman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adam.bachman@gmail.com" target="_blank">adam.bachman@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>> <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;"> If that is not the case your not really being a hackerspace since the main focus is on educating the many and sharing tools.</span></div>
<div>
<font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br>That sounds like a false dichotomy. "Be a 501c3 and pursue MacArthur grants" (be one of us?) or "you're not a hackerspace".</span></font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;">While I agree that going down another of the 501 roads might be a waste of time, I wouldn't suggest they're traitors to the cause.</span></font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;">We at Baltimore Node haven't pursued 501c3 status because of the expense and because there's no immediate need for the status*. We're definitely still a hackerspace, though.</span></font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;">- Adam Bachman</span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><a href="http://baltimorenode.org" target="_blank">http://baltimorenode.org</a></span></font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;">* - I should note that I'm indifferent to our tax exempt status since my contributions aren't enough to justify itemizing on my tax returns, so I'm not going to pursue it. When someone sees the need clearly and is willing to act on it, though, it will get done.</span></font></div>
<div><div></div><div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br>
</span></font></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Eric Michaud <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michaud.eric.c@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaud.eric.c@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Sorry, I meant to state before I accidentally clicked send. Why are you not doing 501c3? Since c6 is for Recreational groups., and c7 is focused on groups for lobbying.<br><br>You wouldn't be able to get grants as easily at all. if your looking for stuff from MacArthur, NSF, or a number of other educational groups. If that is not the case your not really being a hackerspace since the main focus is on educating the many and sharing tools.<br>
<br>Also which state are you in?<br><br>I'd also love to talk shop with you about this if you'd like.<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Eric Michaud <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michaud.eric.c@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaud.eric.c@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hey Tim, why are your leanings to the other groups instead of just 501c3? or c7? Are you planning to not be community oriented or lobby congress?<div>
<div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Tim Krabec <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tkrabec@gmail.com" target="_blank">tkrabec@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Id like to get a copy of some one's IRS Form1023, my accountant is leaning towards a 501c6 or c7 vs the c3. I'd like to get more info to her.<br>
<br>
Tim<br>
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