<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
OTOH there is a significant gap in even higher prices for BruCon,<br>
lasting 2 days only with a 300 EUR slam at door.<br>
<br>
so my curiosity sounds kindof "what the hell are you preparing for<br>
that to cost so much?" - because if it is something really THAT<br>
special i wanna come too :) but unfortunately that wasn't obvious from<br>
the program.<br>
<div class="im"></div></blockquote><div><br>Did you ever ask for a price for a venue in Brussels? Let me present to you an example of the offers we got:<br><br>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 424pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="564"><col style="width: 341pt;" width="454">
<col style="width: 83pt;" width="110">
<tbody><tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl65" style="height: 15.75pt; width: 341pt;" height="21" width="454">Conference
package</td>
<td class="xl66" style="width: 83pt;" width="110"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl67" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">Club Package for 250 persons
and 2 days</td>
<td class="xl68">€ 39,000.00 </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl67" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21"> </td>
<td class="xl68"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl69" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">Meeting rooms</td>
<td class="xl68"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl67" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">1 Breakout room at € 975 per
day, for 2 days</td>
<td class="xl68">€ 1,950.00 </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl67" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21"> </td>
<td class="xl68"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl70" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">Technical equipment</td>
<td class="xl71"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl72" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">Flipchart</td>
<td class="xl71">Included</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl72" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">Screen</td>
<td class="xl71">Included</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">
<td class="xl72" style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21">LCD projector in plenary room</td>
<td class="xl71">Included</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 16.5pt;" height="22">
<td class="xl67" style="height: 16.5pt;" height="22"> </td>
<td class="xl68"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="height: 16.5pt;" height="22">
<td class="xl73" style="height: 16.5pt;" height="22">TOTAL</td>
<td class="xl74">€ 40,950.00 </td>
</tr>
</tbody></table><br><br>Let's say that if 100 people actually show up which is our test case for this year. And this is only the venue. Potential travel costs of speakers not included. That bill is still for the organizers to pay. Yes, I tried to find a "free" venue, but our time and resources are limited. It is the first time. We might succeed better if we get some help!!! I reached out to a lot of the local hackerspaces.... I'm glad that by the day, we're getting more and more support from people which make this event a really (Belgian) community event for which I was hoping for.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">allright, what exactly motivates people to do this on the long term?<br>
i mean if there will be a large amount of money gathered, how are<br>
general intentions for investment?<br>
<br>
</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
i'm also on the board of a dutch stichting BTW, which can be<br>
translated to english as non-profit foundation indeed. so i guess you<br>
also have a statute? just to save you some time...<br>
<div class="im"></div></blockquote><div><br>I actually had to laugh during the panel discussion when I heard the mention about the CCC. I also contacted them just to learn from their congress and maybe better prepare us help for BruCON with a similar goal. I didn't even want to ask them for financial backing to start this, although that would have helped us a lot. I prefer help from kindred spirits instead of "commercial support". The answer was: "we will think about it". So BruCON started with 0 euro. I'm taking the help where and from who I can take it.<br>
<br>Brucon vzw was founded: vzw is a statute equal to your BTW I guess. We <b>have</b> to publish our financial results each year and the goal of a vzw is not to make any money. I actually don't know the implication if it does repeatedly. I think you will loose that statue. I have to check.<br>
If there is any profit, I want to keep a small bit as an emergency cash? Why? Because if I lower prices and there will be a bad year, it won't hurt us that much and nobody will have to need to sell his house. As a vzw, banks are not allowed to give us any loans and we cannot go negative. If there is any large profit besides for lowering our prices, we will donate it to the hackerspaces and the EFF. <br>
<br>The statue of the BruCON vzw was published in the Belgian State Journal and should be available online somewhere.<br><br><i><b>Vereniging zonder winstoogmerk</b> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language" title="Dutch language">Dutch</a>, abbreviated </i><i><b>vzw</b>) or <b>Association sans but lucratif</b> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language" title="French language">French</a>, abbreviated </i><i><b>asbl</b>) means '<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_organization" title="Non-profit organization">non-profit organisation</a>'. For international organisations, the equivalent is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisbl" title="Aisbl" class="mw-redirect">aisbl</a>. It is a formal designation under <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium" title="Belgium">Belgian</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law" title="Law">law</a>, and organisations are entered in a register and allocated numeric identifiers.<br>
<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vzw">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vzw</a></i><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><div class="im">
<br>
</div>and how much discount that gives?<br>
<div class="im"></div></blockquote><div><br>10%<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
the venue is the problem?<br>
</blockquote><div><br>Yes.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
it is not the first time i hear that. but then why don't you detail<br>
that publicly? that's what Geert Lovink did at the opening speech of<br>
the WinterCamp this year (Institute of Network Cultures), lamenting<br>
that a venue in Amsterdam is so extremely expensive that we will end<br>
up doing our things somewhere else.<br>
<br>
i think you are entitled to publish the costs and to highlight these<br>
problems, then more people will acknowledge and it will hopefully be a<br>
step to make things better and more reasonable for everyone.<br>
<div class="im"></div></blockquote><div><br>See above. We have to publish our accounting books publically by the end of 2009. No secrets there. I spend a lot of my time networking for the 2010 edition (if there will be a second edition at all) to improve on it. I'm trying to make a deal with one of the universities, but it's all highly political. <br>
<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im">
</div>i got a sip from Astera and Philippe. cheers :) i like Duvel, still my<br>
favourite export is Chimay ;)<br></blockquote><div><br>I promised Philippe to have a Belgian beer tasting stand at the next HSF. I will include Chimay!! ;-)<br> <br>> Just a quick reply to say that this point deserves to be repeated again
and again : A non-profit event/organization has a lot of interest into
disclosing its incomes/costs publicly. I remember being a student and
thinking that everything ought to > be free. Show us the cost problems
you need to solve. Make your problems our problems, it will help us
make our money your money ;-)<br>
<div class="im"><br>Like I said to Jaromil, a Belgian vzw has to disclose their books each year. <br>
<br>
</div>> I think that detailing the cost structures can really help make
it lower. People lending things instead of renting them, offering
couch-surfing, etc...<br>
<div class="im"><br></div>
Well, people are bringing in network equipment themselves like switches and cables and the organizers and volunteers are putting some money into it that they won't be able to recuperate. If you can find me a venue in Brussels that is<br>
<ol><li>free but guaranteed (a fixed date for sure, even if we don't have a contract, don't forget, it's free and you often get what you paid for)</li><li>can house 100-200 people</li><li>has possibilities for internet connectivity</li>
<li>has some breakout rooms for workshops</li><li>has a lounge or cafeteria where people can eat or relax together</li></ol>Then you have solved 70% of our costs (and thus income prices). If you have a teleport device which can transport people to Brussels in an instant, there are no travel costs and it can be completely free!! ;-)<br>
<br>Yes, there is a lot of room to improvement. No one in Belgium has ever tried to do this before. I'm starting to learn a lot from some of you which I have met in these last months. And this has given me new insights and maybe possibilities. If I could go back into the past, I could change some things for the better. But we have to play with the cards which we have been dealt. I don't know if I'll have the energy and the courage to do a 2010 edition. I'm not the only one organizing this of course, but I do a lot of the work. Hopefully someone will take my place.<br>
<br>I have the dream to start a hackerspace in Antwerp and I want to spend some time on that dream.<br><br>Feel free to brainstorm and comment away!!<br><br>BK<br><br></div></div>