Please stop flame baiting.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Hellekin O. Wolf (/tmp/lab) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hellekin@hackerspaces.org">hellekin@hackerspaces.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im">On Thu 2009-05-14@19:08:48 -0400, Matt Joyce wrote:<br>
> Simplicity is great. I don't disagree. And if "Be excellent to each other"<br>
> was enough I wouldn't have brought this up as an issue. I think we need<br>
> something more, and the past few days are the evidence I would submit of<br>
> that. This is a new list and it's important to set the proper tone early<br>
> on. We don't need valuable members of the hackerspace community dropping<br>
> off of the list in frustration.<br>
><br>
> -Matt<br>
><br>
</div>*** From what I've read so far, I see that you and another person are in<br>
favor of pro-active moderation, while the rest are against any form of a<br>
priori censorship. Either, as Paul suggested, you take responsibility for<br>
it, or I guess we should drop the case.<br>
<br>
We're way beyond Johannes' stimulation for political consciousness into<br>
active political action (either way: for or against censorship/moderation,<br>
i.e. "discussion" vs. "conversation"). I don't think there's more need to<br>
discuss the matter: you want moderation, you take care of it, otherwise,<br>
just skip it and we resume to something else.<br>
<br>
My €.02. General opinion being along the way of towo and webmind et al. DIY<br>
<br>
==<br>
hk, ready to drop off of the list in frustration ;o)<br>
<br>
j/k<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:04 PM, webmind <<a href="mailto:webmind@puscii.nl">webmind@puscii.nl</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
> > Hash: SHA1<br>
> ><br>
> > Not sure where exactly the best place to reply is in this thread, so I<br>
> > take the new base.<br>
> ><br>
> > I do not agree with the assumption that a discussion need to be a formal<br>
> > discourse. I do not think you need a formal framework for having<br>
> > discussions, offline or online.<br>
> > I certainly don't think that you need a specific moderator on a list.<br>
> ><br>
> > If communication really is or becomes a problem, I can understand<br>
> > forming rules, as this can help with/against misunderstandings and<br>
> > communication errors. Something that is IMHO very likely to happen with<br>
> > such diverse groups. But I don't think we need any kind of central<br>
> > moderation for this.<br>
> ><br>
> > And by rules I indeed think more about preventing aggression in<br>
> > communication (from plain flaming to ridiculing), I think that is pretty<br>
> > much in line with the examples that Matt gave (excuse me if I'm wrong).<br>
> > But if someone doesn't or just can't follow the rules, I think you're or<br>
> > we should be able to solve it as a group. By commenting on the issue at<br>
> > hand if required. Yes, this has the risk of turning in a huge thread<br>
> > discussing how's and why's but anyone is completely free to ignore those<br>
> > threads. I do think they are useful, and we have a public archive to<br>
> > point to if it gets repetitive.<br>
> ><br>
> > Long mail short:<br>
> > I do think this is a discussion list, just maybe not everyone's type of<br>
> > 'discussion.<br>
> > I do not oppose rules, but I am against central moderation/control.<br>
> > I think non-aggressive and open-minded communication is non-trivial<br>
> > I think people are quite capable to decide what they want to read/follow<br>
> > or not.<br>
> ><br>
> > Oh, and I don't think we should make any set of rules to complex, I like<br>
> > simplicity.<br>
> ><br>
> > my 2cts.<br>
> ><br>
> > webmind.<br>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)<br>
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - <a href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org" target="_blank">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a><br>
> ><br>
> > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJKDKNtAAoJEOI9Fu788VSu4UkQAJxE1rcY33RLRXUuvZCFJFq+<br>
> > PZ7qCsqyVgdm3IS5rOZ42vwPawHw2gKJMOxooELOai//6XQfx4ugWIKubfKoPJND<br>
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> > xaTX2dPjKhd6ezGQu5JhKCEtEAkJXByhVHVnDnr55Yp7tSUdgNSOAXdTqkz39BPR<br>
> > UR4y/bAaNkCfQuLo3NEoK5fuPT+Q8PhMIxRn6/Des9iEFnKygeK2h3ppV//O3znr<br>
> > y7HI3cHMbmWJtpNHUDKTOkthdqdOVqXZl5e0EpK4tBsec8TiAFwOZSWNgbMwgN6M<br>
> > 4ohE4FNJRnMdvUbk5t4JTIpTfRCcNIPUT33muToxNnuPcTbUBwSwz+mbU5UW9OXo<br>
> > 37jlPUNoFjzfMPfk/s9NR1FKSTUpI/B11/xud83+8JMfW9PPPSR2SiTXyBX38cTM<br>
> > ETpUiXt7q2vS7nb67Lt40XnQGvyH6MwtZiVuGgMrn+u2ilNVuKpoPYAWiAN990wa<br>
> > J1wcfxmS7qc/iy3pUCKaiw6hbYTTT1ErBRXsUBBNPmJIT/hPBUsCPuFrOkLbmiZM<br>
> > BDz5mzAfPPxgloydhalMkLOHohD+fgMkbqawpGIcQfw8PYCWogmizF6TDyOhv9y/<br>
> > aPeTFgnb6wMmoA4nEX7G<br>
> > =tupV<br>
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
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