From a.madman at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 20:09:39 2014 From: a.madman at gmail.com (Jens) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 13:09:39 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Makerspace Bootcamp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dom! It looks like this will be hosted at Maker Works in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Tom Root and Dale Grover, founders of the space, will lead it. From reading their site it appears this is the first time they have run a workshop like this It's a great idea, but just seems like a lot of money for the first time out. When I saw it featured by Make, I assumed it would be the folks from Artisan's Asylum since they have some history with helping other spaces get going. Since I don't know much about the Ann Arbor group, I would be hesitant to go. Maybe others here can vouch for their legitimacy? Jens (also from MakeICT) On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Dominic Canare wrote: > http://makezine.com/2014/09/26/makerspace-operations-bootcamp/ > > Has anyone attended one of these bootcamps? We'd love to hear personal > experiences - especially regarding what you learned and whether it's worth > attending for the price. > > > *Dominic Canare* > President, MakeICT > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scotta at obrary.com Wed Oct 1 21:23:47 2014 From: scotta at obrary.com (Scott Austin) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 12:23:47 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Free Open Design Library Message-ID: Hey folks I?d like to introduce Obrary to this group. At Obrary, we?re creating a library of open designs. You can see it at http://obrary.com/collections/open-designs. We currently focused on designs that are made from a CNC Router or Laser Cutter. Please browse our library and download any designs that you are interested in making. If you do make one, please post a photo of it in the forums. Also, please send me an email if you would like to add a design of yours to the library. Feedback welcome. Thanks! *Scott Austin* President and Co-Founder, Obrary + 1 619 356 1465 [image: 02_facebook] [image: 01_twitter] [image: 13_pinterest] [image: 10_instagram] [image: 03_youtube] [image: 07_linkedin] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image013.png Type: image/png Size: 1049 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image014.png Type: image/png Size: 1101 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image015.png Type: image/png Size: 1174 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image016.png Type: image/png Size: 1085 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image017.png Type: image/png Size: 998 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image018.png Type: image/png Size: 1086 bytes Desc: not available URL: From myself at telcodata.us Fri Oct 3 22:54:39 2014 From: myself at telcodata.us (Nathaniel Bezanson) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 16:54:39 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Makerspace Bootcamp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1412369679488445857@telcodata.us> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julian at phinn.de Sun Oct 5 15:55:51 2014 From: julian at phinn.de (Julian Finn) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 15:55:51 +0200 Subject: [hackerspaces] Vietnamese Hacker Scene? Message-ID: <54314DE7.5090704@phinn.de> Hi there, so i'm going on a trip to south east asia, mostly vietnam (also laos and cambodia) and was wondering if anybody of you knows anything about a hacker scene in any way? The entries about ho chi minh city / hanoi hacker spaces on the hackerspaces.org wiki seem to be outdated. Well, if anybody knows any folks or places to hang out, meet, get to know, please drop me a line. Cheers, Julian From almarzuki2011 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 7 00:31:53 2014 From: almarzuki2011 at hotmail.com (hadi) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 01:31:53 +0300 Subject: [hackerspaces] change the return address to point to shellcode Message-ID: Im using linux and I have c program, I would like to change the return address to point to my shellcode, im unable to do it. Here is my shellcode "\x31\xc0\x50\x68\x2f\x2f\x73\x68\x68\x2f\x62\x69\x6e\x89\xe3\x89\xc1\x89\xc 2\xb0\x0b\xcd\x80\x31\xc0\x40\xcd\x80" Here is my c program int global_value = 0; void bang(int val) { if (global_value == cookie) { printf("Bang!: You set global_value to 0x%x\n", global_value); validate(2); } else printf("Misfire: global_value = 0x%x\n", global_value); exit(0); } -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1625 bytes Desc: not available URL: From myself at telcodata.us Tue Oct 7 20:12:40 2014 From: myself at telcodata.us (Nathaniel Bezanson) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 14:12:40 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Free Open Design Library In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1412705560821362428@telcodata.us> Alright, I'm gonna ask what seems obvious but nobody's saying it: Is this intended as a "more pure" version of Thingiverse, basically minus the Makerbot stink? -Nate B- Scott Austin wrote: > Hey folks > I?d like to introduce Obrary to this group. At Obrary, we?re creating a library of open designs. You can see it at http://obrary.com/collections/open-designs. We currently focused on designs that are made from a CNC Router or Laser Cutter. Please browse our library and download any designs that you are interested in making. If you do make one, please post a photo of it in the forums. Also, please send me an email if you would like to add a design of yours to the library. > Feedback welcome. > Thanks! > > Scott Austin President and Co-Founder, Obrary + 1 619 356 1465 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattsenate at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 00:59:06 2014 From: mattsenate at gmail.com (Matthew Senate) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 15:59:06 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Bay Area Consortium of Hackerspaces (BACH) Unconference Message-ID: For all folks near the San Francisco bay area this weekend, or friends of yours local to us, please forward far and wide! http://2014.ba.chgrp.org/ *Who*: You! *What*: Join your fellow creative communities and hackerspaces to share experiences, knowledge, skills and more at the first BACH Unconference. *Where*: Omni Commons, 4799 Shattuck, Oakland, CA 94610 *When*: Oct 11-12 (Sat-Sun), doors open at 10am! *Register*: https://sudoroom.org/events/2014-bach-unconference/#bookings *Session proposals*: https://pad.riseup.net/p/bach2014 (Read more about schedule, preparation, and all other details on this pad!) We hope to be setting up a live stream as well, so stay tuned if we can get that together in time ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shirley at velochicdesign.com Wed Oct 8 05:43:56 2014 From: shirley at velochicdesign.com (Shirley Hicks) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 22:43:56 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> Message-ID: <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> How are you all dealing with vaping and e-cigarettes at your spaces? Issue has come up at ours, and after a PubMed literature search, we are at a loss regarding making a decision that suits everyone. What we're considering is: No vaping around persons under age 18. Vaping permitted (as less bad than smoking) unless the vapor requested to not do it in a given workshop by other member working there. This is contentious - we are trying to hit a decent compromise given the state of the current scientific literature. There is limited research on vaping on Pub Med. Shirley Hicks Board member, secretary & business admin Red Mountain Makers 5502 1st Avenue North Birmingham, AL 35212 Email: redmtnadm at redmountainmakers.org www.redmountainmakers.org ----------------------------------------------------------- Home email: shirley at velochicdesign.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfxman at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 05:50:46 2014 From: sfxman at gmail.com (Michel Gallant) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 23:50:46 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Free Open Design Library In-Reply-To: <1412705560821362428@telcodata.us> References: <1412705560821362428@telcodata.us> Message-ID: I like the emphasis on CNC cuttable designs. Last time I looked for a Raspberry Pi case every single design needed a laser cutter for 90 degree internal corners. So I think it's more useful too. On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson wrote: > Alright, I'm gonna ask what seems obvious but nobody's saying it: Is this > intended as a "more pure" version of Thingiverse, basically minus the > Makerbot stink? > > -Nate B- > > Scott Austin wrote: > > Hey folks > > I?d like to introduce Obrary to this group. At Obrary, we?re creating a > library of open designs. You can see it at > http://obrary.com/collections/open-designs. We currently focused on > designs that are made from a CNC Router or Laser Cutter. Please browse our > library and download any designs that you are interested in making. If you > do make one, please post a photo of it in the forums. Also, please send me > an email if you would like to add a design of yours to the library. > > Feedback welcome. > > Thanks! > > > *Scott Austin* > > President and Co-Founder, Obrary > > + 1 619 356 1465 > > [image: 02_facebook] [image: > 01_twitter] [image: 13_pinterest] > [image: 10_instagram] > [image: 03_youtube] > [image: > 07_linkedin] > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam.ley at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 06:14:35 2014 From: sam.ley at gmail.com (Sam Ley) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> References: <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: <1412741674853.6bb5e5ba@Nodemailer> Public policy in most states is leaning toward "vaping is cigarettes". It is possible that your existing laws already cover the situation.? In our case we ask members to smoke cigarettes and joints outside. Vaping tobacco or weed is ok, but encouraged to be kept in our metalworking areas that have better ventilation. Sam Phoenix Asylum (Colorado) ? Sent from Mailbox On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Shirley Hicks wrote: > How are you all dealing with vaping and e-cigarettes at your spaces? > Issue has come up at ours, and after a PubMed literature search, we are at a loss regarding making a decision that suits everyone. > What we're considering is: > No vaping around persons under age 18. > Vaping permitted (as less bad than smoking) unless the vapor requested to not do it in a given workshop by other member working there. > This is contentious - we are trying to hit a decent compromise given the state of the current scientific literature. There is limited research on vaping on Pub Med. > Shirley Hicks > Board member, secretary & business admin > Red Mountain Makers > 5502 1st Avenue North > Birmingham, AL 35212 > Email: redmtnadm at redmountainmakers.org > www.redmountainmakers.org > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Home email: shirley at velochicdesign.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crasch at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 06:26:25 2014 From: crasch at gmail.com (Chris Rasch) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 21:26:25 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: We're new enough that it hasn't been an issue yet, but our policy will likely be "Vape as you want, so long as it isn't bothering someone nearby. If it is, go someone else in the space or outside." Chris On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Shirley Hicks wrote: > How are you all dealing with vaping and e-cigarettes at your spaces? > > Issue has come up at ours, and after a PubMed literature search, we are at > a loss regarding making a decision that suits everyone. > > What we're considering is: > > No vaping around persons under age 18. > Vaping permitted (as less bad than smoking) unless the vapor requested to > not do it in a given workshop by other member working there. > > This is contentious - we are trying to hit a decent compromise given the > state of the current scientific literature. There is limited research on > vaping on Pub Med. > > Shirley Hicks > Board member, secretary & business admin > Red Mountain Makers > 5502 1st Avenue North > Birmingham, AL 35212 > > Email: redmtnadm at redmountainmakers.org > www.redmountainmakers.org > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Home email: shirley at velochicdesign.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at nycresistor.com Wed Oct 8 06:38:01 2014 From: matt at nycresistor.com (matt) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 00:38:01 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: I think all of our members are considerate enough that this discussion has never arisen. Also I don't think any of our members 'vape'. That's kind of a middle america / lower class thing. >=D On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:26 AM, Chris Rasch wrote: > We're new enough that it hasn't been an issue yet, but our policy will > likely be "Vape as you want, so long as it isn't bothering someone nearby. > If it is, go someone else in the space or outside." > > Chris > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Shirley Hicks > wrote: > >> How are you all dealing with vaping and e-cigarettes at your spaces? >> >> Issue has come up at ours, and after a PubMed literature search, we are >> at a loss regarding making a decision that suits everyone. >> >> What we're considering is: >> >> No vaping around persons under age 18. >> Vaping permitted (as less bad than smoking) unless the vapor requested to >> not do it in a given workshop by other member working there. >> >> This is contentious - we are trying to hit a decent compromise given the >> state of the current scientific literature. There is limited research on >> vaping on Pub Med. >> >> Shirley Hicks >> Board member, secretary & business admin >> Red Mountain Makers >> 5502 1st Avenue North >> Birmingham, AL 35212 >> >> Email: redmtnadm at redmountainmakers.org >> www.redmountainmakers.org >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> Home email: shirley at velochicdesign.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From me at davidfrancos.net Wed Oct 8 12:24:21 2014 From: me at davidfrancos.net (David Francos) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 12:24:21 +0200 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: 2014-10-08 6:38 GMT+02:00 matt : > I think all of our members are considerate enough that this discussion has > never arisen. Also I don't think any of our members 'vape'. That's kind > of a middle america / lower class thing. >=D > At Dlabs Hackerspace none of our members vape that we know, but our policy is very strict on that: No smoking, any kind. But, anyway, we've got a pretty small and not-very-well ventilated space, wich might not be your case. Consider: - Is your space big enough? - Do you have someplace outside where smokers can "smoke" or "vape"? Vaping is less bothering than smoking inside, but it still produces smells, and probably some substances that people might not like. -- Gracias, David Francos Cuartero (davidfrancos.net) -------------------------------------------------------------- President - Dlabs Hackerspace (www.dlabs.co) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dh405okc at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 13:39:05 2014 From: dh405okc at gmail.com (Derek H) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 06:39:05 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: Let's look at the vapor itself. It is derived from propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, usually food-grade or better flavoring agents, and usually (not always) a small amount of nicotine. * Propylene Glycol is basic fog juice, same as you would use in a fog machine. There are some people who have allergic reactions to PG, but usually that's only in large concentration. * Vegetable Glycerin is a very harmless medium. It's one of those things that we consume all the time anyhow. * The flavoring agents are mostly harmless. The only danger here is that some of them are not fully tested to show no harm when they are heated and inhaled. I think the worst thing people have found has been diacetyl, which is the base for pretty much all fake butter flavoring. It has been shown to be harmful when inhaled.. on industrial scales over years of working in plants that produce diacetyl or work with it extensively. * The nicotine itself isn't nearly as bad as many people feel. Is it something I'd give to a kid? Certainly not. Much like how caffeine attaches to the adenosine receptors to work as a stimulant, nicotine binds to the acetylcholine receptors in the brain. It's not something great to take in huge quantities. The secondhand vapor exhaled from your average vaper is going to contain just tiny amounts of nicotine. The secondhand risks are minimal. That said, some people do not like it. If someone doesn't like vapor or the usually-pleasant smells, then vapers shouldn't bother them and should refrain from using their e-cigarettes. If the vaper is a real jerk about it, someone may unfortunately have to spread some "enforced politeness." Banning ecigs altogether out of uninformed fear is a show of weak and lazy leadership. Educate yourself and your membership. Matt, your comment on vaping being a middle america or lower-class "thing" was distasteful and classist. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 5:24 AM, David Francos wrote: > > 2014-10-08 6:38 GMT+02:00 matt : > >> I think all of our members are considerate enough that this discussion >> has never arisen. Also I don't think any of our members 'vape'. That's >> kind of a middle america / lower class thing. >=D >> > > > At Dlabs Hackerspace none of our members vape that we know, but our policy > is very strict on that: No smoking, any kind. > But, anyway, we've got a pretty small and not-very-well ventilated space, > wich might not be your case. > > Consider: > - Is your space big enough? > - Do you have someplace outside where smokers can "smoke" or "vape"? > > Vaping is less bothering than smoking inside, but it still produces > smells, and probably some substances that people might not like. > > -- > > Gracias, > > David Francos Cuartero (davidfrancos.net) > -------------------------------------------------------------- > President - Dlabs Hackerspace (www.dlabs.co) > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From itg at itechgeek.com Wed Oct 8 13:39:43 2014 From: itg at itechgeek.com (ITechGeek) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 07:39:43 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: Vaping itself isn't harmful to others as far as anything I've read (I haven't read any research on pubmed, but in other places). The only thing that would be a problem to others is either the sight of it (people think vaping is the same as smoking and feel the same about it as smoking) or the chemicals involved in the flavor/smells (people can have a bad reaction to any chemical, particularly in enclosed spaces). I think the proposed rule in the original email is fair and I would also attach a suggestion for the vapor to avoid flavors (one person's rose could be another's skunk). Now I'm against <18 using it just because that is our arbitrary cut off in the US between child and adult and you can easily get A LOT more nicotine from an e-cig. On a lighter note, a friend had someone report him to metro (DC's subway system) security cause they could "smell the tobacco" almost a full car away on the platform of a large station. I think he said he was vaping non-flavored at the time. He has also had people tell him to "put out his cigarette" when smoking a blue tipped e-cig, threaten to report him for the fire hazard, threaten to kick him out of places cause they could smell the tabacco, etc). I haven't looked into vaping weed, but I would imagine it is like vaping nicotine and only the vapor gets the thc and would be ok w/ that being treated the same. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -ITG (ITechGeek) ITG at ITechGeek.Com https://itg.nu/ GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:24 AM, David Francos wrote: > > 2014-10-08 6:38 GMT+02:00 matt : > >> I think all of our members are considerate enough that this discussion >> has never arisen. Also I don't think any of our members 'vape'. That's >> kind of a middle america / lower class thing. >=D >> > > > At Dlabs Hackerspace none of our members vape that we know, but our policy > is very strict on that: No smoking, any kind. > But, anyway, we've got a pretty small and not-very-well ventilated space, > wich might not be your case. > > Consider: > - Is your space big enough? > - Do you have someplace outside where smokers can "smoke" or "vape"? > > Vaping is less bothering than smoking inside, but it still produces > smells, and probably some substances that people might not like. > > -- > > Gracias, > > David Francos Cuartero (davidfrancos.net) > -------------------------------------------------------------- > President - Dlabs Hackerspace (www.dlabs.co) > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From itg at itechgeek.com Wed Oct 8 14:00:31 2014 From: itg at itechgeek.com (ITechGeek) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 08:00:31 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:38 AM, matt wrote: > I think all of our members are considerate enough that this discussion has > never arisen. Also I don't think any of our members 'vape'. That's kind > of a middle america / lower class thing. >=D > For the record everyone I know who vapes is a working professional in the DC area and by no stretch would any of them be "lower-class". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -ITG (ITechGeek) ITG at ITechGeek.Com https://itg.nu/ GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walter at revspace.nl Wed Oct 8 14:17:18 2014 From: walter at revspace.nl (Walter van Holst) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:17:18 +0200 Subject: [hackerspaces] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_Vaping_in_Spaces=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: On 2014-10-08 14:00, ITechGeek wrote: >> I think all of our members are considerate enough that this >> discussion has never arisen. Also I don't think any of our members >> 'vape'. That's kind of a middle america / lower class thing. >=D > > For the record everyone I know who vapes is a working professional in > the DC area and by no stretch would any of them be "lower-class". Don't feed the douche. FTR, this matter has never come up at RevSpace. Regards, Walter From ramgarden at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 15:35:54 2014 From: ramgarden at gmail.com (Joshua Pritt) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 09:35:54 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: This hasn't come up at Melbourne Makerspace but I'm sure the #2 rule to be excellent to each other would apply. The vaper person should be considerate enough to do it outside so no one else has to breathe it. If it were me I would go outside and far away from the front or side doors. I wish there was a mask of some sort like a reverse gas mask where vapers and smokers could keep 100% of their chemicals to themselves and not bother anyone else with it. I don't care what you do to yourself as long as you don't do it to others around you. I use this example: Let's say you like to cut yourself with a razor from time to time but when people are around you also cut them just a little bit. Not a lot, just a tiny little poke with the corner of the razor, no big deal. I'm pretty sure people around you would have a problem with that. Kinda silly but also kinda similar. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Walter van Holst wrote: > On 2014-10-08 14:00, ITechGeek wrote: > >> I think all of our members are considerate enough that this >>> discussion has never arisen. Also I don't think any of our members >>> 'vape'. That's kind of a middle america / lower class thing. >=D >>> >> >> For the record everyone I know who vapes is a working professional in >> the DC area and by no stretch would any of them be "lower-class". >> > > Don't feed the douche. > > FTR, this matter has never come up at RevSpace. > > Regards, > > Walter > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dreamingforward at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 16:58:36 2014 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Mark Janssen) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 09:58:36 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: Vaping is the lazy person's way of not fixing the world. There's a reason for craving. Giving into the addiction doesn't settle it. Each drug has a different reason. You don't see these issues within certain demographics, because people who live on Truth get fed naturally. Vaping is essentially Jesus`s farts. There: now you know. Cheers! Marxos From hadez.hso at nrrd.de Wed Oct 8 17:21:55 2014 From: hadez.hso at nrrd.de (hadez) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 17:21:55 +0200 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: The issue came up at shackspace and it got to a point where some folks felt offended and the vapers in question ignored / downplayed / ridiculed all pleads to please take it outside or even move by an inch. Since we already have a strict "no indoor smoking" rule established, we simply decided to treat vaping the same way. So far, to my knowledge, neither side of the argument was able to present compelling, peer-reviewed and tested research in favor of their party. At the moment there are indications that vapor - while less toxic than smoke - still does contain several chemicals identified as carcinogens[0,1]. So without moving the goal post around too much, we've decided as a group to err on the side of caution and treat vaping the same way we treat smoking: Feel free to do it, as long as you do it outside. [0] Gonewicz ML, Knysak J, Gawron M, et al. Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes. Tob Control. doi:10: 1136/tobaccocontrol-2012-050859 [1] Schripp T, Markewitz D, Uhde E, et al. Does e-cigarette consumption cause passive vaping? Indoor Air 2013; (1):25-31. -- hadez From sam.ley at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 18:56:28 2014 From: sam.ley at gmail.com (Sam Ley) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 10:56:28 -0600 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Mark Janssen wrote: > You don't see these issues within certain demographics, because people > who live on Truth get fed naturally. > I agree completely. At our space we have a strict requirement that members be pure of mind, body and spirit. The application process consists of them sitting on top of a pillar of amethyst, and subsisting only on natural sunlight and rainwater for 14 days and 14 nights. On the final night, should they survive the trials, we write down their ravings in our wiki, as pure Truth unbiased by toxins of the outside world. God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all. -Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbzurn at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 19:10:36 2014 From: jbzurn at gmail.com (JB Zurn) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 13:10:36 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: There used to be a group of people at FamiLAB who vaped quite a bit, and the smell bothered another group who was there quite a bit. A large part was though, the vaping also involved hacking, they were taking apart ecigs. Which helped give me an idea for a project (www.senti8.com) How the issue got resolved - there was the usual ruckus that comes with all disagreements. In the short term, the vapers started doing most of their vaping in the warehouse near the garage door, which worked for them because they could sit near the outside and hang out. In the long term, the primary vapers ended up getting a job at an ecig store closer to their university, and spent less time in the lab. So some of the stuff kinda resolves itself if you wait it out. -Brooks On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Sam Ley wrote: > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Mark Janssen > wrote: > >> You don't see these issues within certain demographics, because people >> who live on Truth get fed naturally. >> > > I agree completely. At our space we have a strict requirement that members > be pure of mind, body and spirit. The application process consists of them > sitting on top of a pillar of amethyst, and subsisting only on natural > sunlight and rainwater for 14 days and 14 nights. On the final night, > should they survive the trials, we write down their ravings in our wiki, as > pure Truth unbiased by toxins of the outside world. > > God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true > health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you > all. > > -Sam > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at mrmccabe.com Wed Oct 8 19:44:45 2014 From: matt at mrmccabe.com (Matthew McCabe) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 10:44:45 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping leads to any kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people inhaling the vapor 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical journals, I would love to read them.) When we founded ATX Hackerspace, a few of our members vaped indoors without incident though I don't know what their policy is today. All of that being said, be sure to check your local laws as some cities like Seattle and San Francisco have made it illegal to vape indoors. So if you are concerned about following the letter of the law in your space, you may need to ask people who vape to do so outside. Also, I have (antidotally) heard of people who are mildly allergic to the vapors but that is probably not a good reason to ban them outright in a space. IMO, yes, be excellent and if vaping causes someone else physical discomfort, don't do it around them. Though, the "OMG you are smoking indoors and smoking is bad" kind of attitude is just ridiculous. Vaping != smoking. -Matt On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:10 AM, JB Zurn wrote: > There used to be a group of people at FamiLAB who vaped quite a bit, and > the smell bothered another group who was there quite a bit. A large part > was though, the vaping also involved hacking, they were taking apart ecigs. > Which helped give me an idea for a project (www.senti8.com) > > How the issue got resolved - there was the usual ruckus that comes with > all disagreements. In the short term, the vapers started doing most of > their vaping in the warehouse near the garage door, which worked for them > because they could sit near the outside and hang out. In the long term, the > primary vapers ended up getting a job at an ecig store closer to their > university, and spent less time in the lab. > > So some of the stuff kinda resolves itself if you wait it out. > > -Brooks > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Sam Ley wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Mark Janssen >> wrote: >> >>> You don't see these issues within certain demographics, because people >>> who live on Truth get fed naturally. >>> >> >> I agree completely. At our space we have a strict requirement that >> members be pure of mind, body and spirit. The application process consists >> of them sitting on top of a pillar of amethyst, and subsisting only on >> natural sunlight and rainwater for 14 days and 14 nights. On the final >> night, should they survive the trials, we write down their ravings in our >> wiki, as pure Truth unbiased by toxins of the outside world. >> >> God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true >> health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you >> all. >> >> -Sam >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tallycast at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 20:06:43 2014 From: tallycast at gmail.com (Dave) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 14:06:43 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Help with membership agreement and tool loan policies Message-ID: Making Awesome is a makerspace in Tallahassee Florida. Recently we were booted from our original location and are moving into a new space. We're keeping our doors closed to the public for a couple of months while we build out the new space and tighten up our organization. That brings up this request. We are looking for best practices/good examples/advice on membership requirements and on policies/expectations for tools loaned to the space by members or others. Cheers, and thanks, David Brightbill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ramgarden at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 20:24:26 2014 From: ramgarden at gmail.com (Joshua Pritt) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 14:24:26 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Help with membership agreement and tool loan policies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1. Make sure people know about LOANING a tool vs DONATING a tool. If loaned the member can take it back if they move or whatever. Donating means it's part of the shop's assets. 2. Create a wiki page on your space's wiki (you do have a wiki, right?) with a table showing who loaned or donated which tools. Or if multiple members paid for a tool. 3. If loaned make sure to put your name on it with a labelmaker or engraver, etc. 4. Make a rule that if someone breaks a tool they should help pay for fixing or replacing it. Rational people should automatically offer to help fix it. 5. Some people have asked about valuating tool donations so that if they donate a tool it will pay for their membership for some time. This still needs further discussion. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Dave wrote: > Making Awesome is a makerspace in Tallahassee Florida. Recently we were > booted from our original location and are moving into a new space. We're > keeping our doors closed to the public for a couple of months while we > build out the new space and tighten up our organization. > > That brings up this request. > > We are looking for best practices/good examples/advice on membership > requirements and on policies/expectations for tools loaned to the space by > members or others. > > Cheers, and thanks, > David Brightbill > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dreamingforward at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 20:31:47 2014 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (John Q. Hacker) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 13:31:47 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: >> You don't see these issues within certain demographics, because people >> who live on Truth get fed naturally. > > I agree completely. At our space we have a strict requirement that members > be pure of mind, body and spirit. The application process consists of them > sitting on top of a pillar of amethyst, and subsisting only on natural > sunlight and rainwater for 14 days and 14 nights. On the final night, should > they survive the trials, we write down their ravings in our wiki, as pure > Truth unbiased by toxins of the outside world. I should refrain from further comment, but like most, you've been misled by postmodernism into thinking that there is no Truth, or that "it's all relative". These are tools for cowards and the weak. You probably justify it to yourself with thoughts like "one can never really know", etc., yet you've put unrestrained confidence in science and evolution as Truth, yes? > God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true > health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you > all. That's very good. We may be seated. Marxos, the-no-vapr-in-Truth-cowboy-hacker. From dreamingforward at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 20:38:50 2014 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (John Q. Hacker) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 13:38:50 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe wrote: > There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping leads to any > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people inhaling the vapor > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical journals, I > would love to read them.) The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig industry. "No evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that EXACT same argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There is no medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against (P -> Q) is not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of vaping, and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely made to gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to check your local laws", etc.) Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the OneTruePath. Marxos From sam.ley at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 20:54:58 2014 From: sam.ley at gmail.com (Sam Ley) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 12:54:58 -0600 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:31 PM, John Q. Hacker wrote: > yet you've put unrestrained confidence in science > and evolution as Truth, yes? > I wouldn't say I have unrestrained confidence in anything. That said, to the original poster's question, we don't have to decide whether vaping is inherently good or bad, just what level of policy a hackerspace should have regarding it. My intuition is putting the danger of moderate vaping somewhere between breathing solder fumes and drinking diet coke, which is bad enough that I don't want to do it myself, but not so bad that I'll slap it out of someone's hands. I'm a proponent of "no new rules unless absolutely necessary", and I think that any existing "respect your fellow members" policies should adequately cover disagreements about vaping indoors. Of course if people refuse to play nicely, or there are specific local laws you have to follow, then you may need to get more specific. -Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at mrmccabe.com Wed Oct 8 20:56:46 2014 From: matt at mrmccabe.com (Matthew McCabe) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 11:56:46 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: Warning: trolls ahead, use caution On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" wrote: > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe wrote: > > There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping leads to any > > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people inhaling the > vapor > > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical journals, I > > would love to read them.) > > The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig industry. "No > evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that EXACT same > argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any > liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There is no > medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). > > Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against (P -> Q) is > not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of vaping, > and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely made to > gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to check your > local laws", etc.) > > Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the OneTruePath. > > Marxos > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparr0 at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 21:00:07 2014 From: sparr0 at gmail.com (Sparr) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 14:00:07 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 10:43 PM, Shirley Hicks wrote: > How are you all dealing with vaping and e-cigarettes at your spaces? It's less harmful than soldering, welding, or metal grinding. From dreamingforward at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 21:15:41 2014 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (John Q. Hacker) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 14:15:41 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com> Message-ID: >> How are you all dealing with vaping and e-cigarettes at your spaces? > > It's less harmful than soldering, welding, or metal grinding. That's probably not true and you might endanger yourself making such a claim. The "soul" (for want of a better term) has use for those activities so can organize the immune system around it (even soldering). Getting free highs isn't the same. Since there's no evidence that it's safe, it's actually safer to assume that it isn't than believe otherwise, particularly, given the history of such products (RJReynolds, et al). Marxos From jbzurn at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 21:46:12 2014 From: jbzurn at gmail.com (JB Zurn) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:46:12 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: Note: It simplifies the discussion immensely if we focus on the facts. It smells. Some people are bothered by smells. If I habitually brought my favorite liverwurst and onion sandwiches into the hackerspace, I'd get complaints too. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Matthew McCabe wrote: > Warning: trolls ahead, use caution > On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" > wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe >> wrote: >> > There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping leads to any >> > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people inhaling the >> vapor >> > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical journals, I >> > would love to read them.) >> >> The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig industry. "No >> evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that EXACT same >> argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any >> liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There is no >> medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). >> >> Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against (P -> Q) is >> not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of vaping, >> and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely made to >> gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to check your >> local laws", etc.) >> >> Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the OneTruePath. >> >> Marxos >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scotta at obrary.com Wed Oct 8 21:51:20 2014 From: scotta at obrary.com (Scott Austin) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 12:51:20 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Free Open Design Library In-Reply-To: <1412705560821362428@telcodata.us> References: <1412705560821362428@telcodata.us> Message-ID: Nate The short term improvements we?re making to open designs include: ? Using one license type across all designs so people know how they can use it without having to read yet another license type file. ? Providing source (CAD) files so anyone can edit and modify the design. ? Ensuring that designs are buildable, not just concepts. ? Allow commercial use of designs and products. Then there?s longer term improvements we?re making to the digital fabrication process: ? Having parametric models that allow variety in the product?s dimension from a single design. ? Streamlining the bulky process that exists today between CAD, CAM and GCode. While I understand the comparison to Thingiverse, it?s not wholly accurate. We are looking at the whole digital fabrication process, not just cloud storage of design files. Thanks *Scott Austin* President and Co-Founder, Obrary + 1 619 356 1465 [image: 02_facebook] [image: 01_twitter] [image: 13_pinterest] [image: 10_instagram] [image: 03_youtube] [image: 07_linkedin] *From:* Nathaniel Bezanson [mailto:myself at telcodata.us] *Sent:* Tuesday, October 7, 2014 11:13 AM *To:* Hackerspaces General Discussion List *Subject:* Re: [hackerspaces] Free Open Design Library Alright, I'm gonna ask what seems obvious but nobody's saying it: Is this intended as a "more pure" version of Thingiverse, basically minus the Makerbot stink? -Nate B- Scott Austin wrote: Hey folks I?d like to introduce Obrary to this group. At Obrary, we?re creating a library of open designs. You can see it at http://obrary.com/collections/open-designs. We currently focused on designs that are made from a CNC Router or Laser Cutter. Please browse our library and download any designs that you are interested in making. If you do make one, please post a photo of it in the forums. Also, please send me an email if you would like to add a design of yours to the library. Feedback welcome. Thanks! *Scott Austin* President and Co-Founder, Obrary + 1 619 356 1465 [image: 02_facebook] [image: 01_twitter] [image: 13_pinterest] [image: 10_instagram] [image: 03_youtube] [image: 07_linkedin] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image013.png Type: image/png Size: 1049 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

Message-ID: <54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> If we're banning things based on smells, then the only logical thing to do is also adopt a policy requiring everyone to take a shower (with soap) before coming over to the hackerspace in addition to brushing their teeth. Also, no farting in the hackerspace. And for fuck's sake, WIPE PROPERLY. It's 102 degrees out there today, but even if it was 40 below that's still no excuse. - skroo. On 10/8/14 12:46 PM, JB Zurn wrote: > Note: It simplifies the discussion immensely if we focus on the facts. > It smells. Some people are bothered by smells. > > If I habitually brought my favorite liverwurst and onion sandwiches into > the hackerspace, I'd get complaints too. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Matthew McCabe > wrote: > > Warning: trolls ahead, use caution > > On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" > wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe > > wrote: > > There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping > leads to any > > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people > inhaling the vapor > > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical > journals, I > > would love to read them.) > > The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig industry. "No > evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that EXACT same > argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any > liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There is no > medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). > > Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against (P -> > Q) is > not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of > vaping, > and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely > made to > gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to check your > local laws", etc.) > > Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the > OneTruePath. > > Marxos > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From matt at nycresistor.com Wed Oct 8 22:12:17 2014 From: matt at nycresistor.com (matt) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 16:12:17 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: <54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

<54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> Message-ID: Uhm... do people allow people into their space who haven't bathed? That seems insane. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Volatile Compound < volatilecompound at gmail.com> wrote: > If we're banning things based on smells, then the only logical thing to > do is also adopt a policy requiring everyone to take a shower (with > soap) before coming over to the hackerspace in addition to brushing > their teeth. Also, no farting in the hackerspace. And for fuck's sake, > WIPE PROPERLY. It's 102 degrees out there today, but even if it was 40 > below that's still no excuse. > > - skroo. > > On 10/8/14 12:46 PM, JB Zurn wrote: > > Note: It simplifies the discussion immensely if we focus on the facts. > > It smells. Some people are bothered by smells. > > > > If I habitually brought my favorite liverwurst and onion sandwiches into > > the hackerspace, I'd get complaints too. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Matthew McCabe > > wrote: > > > > Warning: trolls ahead, use caution > > > > On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" > > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe > > > wrote: > > > There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping > > leads to any > > > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people > > inhaling the vapor > > > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical > > journals, I > > > would love to read them.) > > > > The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig industry. > "No > > evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that EXACT > same > > argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any > > liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There is no > > medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). > > > > Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against (P -> > > Q) is > > not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of > > vaping, > > and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely > > made to > > gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to check > your > > local laws", etc.) > > > > Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the > > OneTruePath. > > > > Marxos > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org> > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From volatilecompound at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 22:14:12 2014 From: volatilecompound at gmail.com (Volatile Compound) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:14:12 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org>

<54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54359B14.8050407@gmail.com> There have been... Banishments, at least until such time as the offending odours have been rectified. But yeah, without some sort of codification of personal hygiene, it seems like there's a good chunk of the populace out there who just don't bother with it. - skroo. On 10/8/14 1:12 PM, matt wrote: > Uhm... do people allow people into their space who haven't bathed? > That seems insane. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Volatile Compound > > wrote: > > If we're banning things based on smells, then the only logical thing to > do is also adopt a policy requiring everyone to take a shower (with > soap) before coming over to the hackerspace in addition to brushing > their teeth. Also, no farting in the hackerspace. And for fuck's sake, > WIPE PROPERLY. It's 102 degrees out there today, but even if it was 40 > below that's still no excuse. > > - skroo. > > On 10/8/14 12:46 PM, JB Zurn wrote: > > Note: It simplifies the discussion immensely if we focus on the facts. > > It smells. Some people are bothered by smells. > > > > If I habitually brought my favorite liverwurst and onion sandwiches into > > the hackerspace, I'd get complaints too. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Matthew McCabe > > >> wrote: > > > > Warning: trolls ahead, use caution > > > > On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" > > >> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe > > > >> wrote: > > > There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping > > leads to any > > > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people > > inhaling the vapor > > > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical > > journals, I > > > would love to read them.) > > > > The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig > industry. "No > > evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that > EXACT same > > argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any > > liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There > is no > > medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). > > > > Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against > (P -> > > Q) is > > not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of > > vaping, > > and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely > > made to > > gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to > check your > > local laws", etc.) > > > > Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the > > OneTruePath. > > > > Marxos > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > > > > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > > > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From tkrabec at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 22:15:23 2014 From: tkrabec at gmail.com (Tim Krabec) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 16:15:23 -0400 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

<54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> Message-ID: Why is there such a big discussion about this. Talk to your local members, figure out what is right for YOUR space, then put in some rules, look at them in few months to a year and see if it still makes sense. Then be polite to visitors who may not know your policy. If your visiting a space, ask what their rules are. Tim Krabec tkrabec.com Bio On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:12 PM, matt wrote: > Uhm... do people allow people into their space who haven't bathed? That > seems insane. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Volatile Compound < > volatilecompound at gmail.com> wrote: > >> If we're banning things based on smells, then the only logical thing to >> do is also adopt a policy requiring everyone to take a shower (with >> soap) before coming over to the hackerspace in addition to brushing >> their teeth. Also, no farting in the hackerspace. And for fuck's sake, >> WIPE PROPERLY. It's 102 degrees out there today, but even if it was 40 >> below that's still no excuse. >> >> - skroo. >> >> On 10/8/14 12:46 PM, JB Zurn wrote: >> > Note: It simplifies the discussion immensely if we focus on the facts. >> > It smells. Some people are bothered by smells. >> > >> > If I habitually brought my favorite liverwurst and onion sandwiches into >> > the hackerspace, I'd get complaints too. >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Matthew McCabe > > > wrote: >> > >> > Warning: trolls ahead, use caution >> > >> > On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" < >> dreamingforward at gmail.com >> > > wrote: >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe >> > > wrote: >> > > There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping >> > leads to any >> > > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people >> > inhaling the vapor >> > > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical >> > journals, I >> > > would love to read them.) >> > >> > The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig >> industry. "No >> > evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that EXACT >> same >> > argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any >> > liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There is no >> > medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). >> > >> > Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against (P -> >> > Q) is >> > not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of >> > vaping, >> > and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely >> > made to >> > gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to check >> your >> > local laws", etc.) >> > >> > Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the >> > OneTruePath. >> > >> > Marxos >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> > >> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org> >> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From volatilecompound at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 22:18:33 2014 From: volatilecompound at gmail.com (Volatile Compound) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:18:33 -0700 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org>

<54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54359C19.6060907@gmail.com> See, that's the reasonable thing to do. Unfortunately, someone asked the question on this list, and, well, it all went to hell from there in a handbasket of opinion in lieu of just using common sense. But, hey, inboxes are for email, amirite? - skroo. On 10/8/14 1:15 PM, Tim Krabec wrote: > Why is there such a big discussion about this. Talk to your local > members, figure out what is right for YOUR space, then put in some > rules, look at them in few months to a year and see if it still makes > sense. Then be polite to visitors who may not know your policy. If > your visiting a space, ask what their rules are. > > > > Tim Krabec > tkrabec.com > Bio > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:12 PM, matt > wrote: > > Uhm... do people allow people into their space who haven't > bathed? That seems insane. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Volatile Compound > > wrote: > > If we're banning things based on smells, then the only logical > thing to > do is also adopt a policy requiring everyone to take a shower (with > soap) before coming over to the hackerspace in addition to brushing > their teeth. Also, no farting in the hackerspace. And for > fuck's sake, > WIPE PROPERLY. It's 102 degrees out there today, but even if it > was 40 > below that's still no excuse. > > - skroo. > > On 10/8/14 12:46 PM, JB Zurn wrote: > > Note: It simplifies the discussion immensely if we focus on the facts. > > It smells. Some people are bothered by smells. > > > > If I habitually brought my favorite liverwurst and onion sandwiches into > > the hackerspace, I'd get complaints too. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Matthew McCabe > > >> wrote: > > > > Warning: trolls ahead, use caution > > > > On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" > > >> > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe > > > >> wrote: > > > There is no documented medical evidence showing that > vaping > > leads to any > > > kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people > > inhaling the vapor > > > 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed > medical > > journals, I > > > would love to read them.) > > > > The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig > industry. "No > > evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is > that EXACT same > > argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get > out of any > > liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes > ("There is no > > medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). > > > > Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence > against (P -> > > Q) is > > not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad > consequence of > > vaping, > > and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe > is purely > > made to > > gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure > to check your > > local laws", etc.) > > > > Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the > > OneTruePath. > > > > Marxos > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > > > > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > > > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From shirley at velochicdesign.com Wed Oct 8 22:22:52 2014 From: shirley at velochicdesign.com (Shirley Hicks) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:22:52 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: <54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>

<54359A2B.5080400@gmail.com> Message-ID: Before everyone has a jolly time veering off into the analogies, logic and digressions on the subject and ends at Godwin, may I respectfully request restraining input to that of answers to the original question? The thread is illustrating the sheer vexatiousness that vaping in shared spaces generates. So far, the answers to my original question have been useful in giving me a sense of what decisions other spaces are finding useful. Thanks! :) Shirley Hicks Red Mountain Makers. On Oct 8, 2014, at 3:10 PM, Volatile Compound wrote: > If we're banning things based on smells, then the only logical thing to > do is also adopt a policy requiring everyone to take a shower (with > soap) before coming over to the hackerspace in addition to brushing > their teeth. Also, no farting in the hackerspace. And for fuck's sake, > WIPE PROPERLY. It's 102 degrees out there today, but even if it was 40 > below that's still no excuse. > > - skroo. > > On 10/8/14 12:46 PM, JB Zurn wrote: >> Note: It simplifies the discussion immensely if we focus on the facts. >> It smells. Some people are bothered by smells. >> >> If I habitually brought my favorite liverwurst and onion sandwiches into >> the hackerspace, I'd get complaints too. >> >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Matthew McCabe > > wrote: >> >> Warning: trolls ahead, use caution >> >> On Oct 8, 2014 11:38 AM, "John Q. Hacker" > > wrote: >> >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Matthew McCabe >> > wrote: >>> There is no documented medical evidence showing that vaping >> leads to any >>> kind of harm to the person using the vaporizer or people >> inhaling the vapor >>> 2nd hand. (If you have some links to peer reviewed medical >> journals, I >>> would love to read them.) >> >> The speaker above is a Matrix construct for the e-cig industry. "No >> evidence that vaping leads to any kind of harm" is that EXACT same >> argument Philip J. Morris and companies used to get out of any >> liability of lung cancer for promoting cigarettes ("There is no >> medical evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer."). >> >> Just in case you missed the fallacy: no evidence against (P -> >> Q) is >> not the same as ~Q, given P. Q being some bad consequence of >> vaping, >> and P being vaping itself. The rest of his diatribe is purely >> made to >> gain your trust ("I have a hackerspace ATX", "Be sure to check your >> local laws", etc.) >> >> Logic-is-good, evil is bad. Get clued-in and follow the >> OneTruePath. >> >> Marxos >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From dreamingforward at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 22:29:07 2014 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (John Q. Hacker) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:29:07 -0500 Subject: [hackerspaces] Fwd: Vaping in Spaces? In-Reply-To: References: <1DE996BF-5807-4641-B677-77D2D9B8405E@redmountainmakers.org> <50580E9C-CF3A-4314-BA43-C883C4E4EA52@velochicdesign.com>