[hackerspaces] Master's thesis

[Joshua Pritt]

LOL @ half-working 3D printers.  I think that sums up most hackerspaces
quite nicely!


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 3:31 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:

> > It is not that the authors of such studies are of malicious intent,
> > but rather that the studies can be used as a means of developing
> > policies, counter tactics and infiltration programs.
>
> Just because someone might use statistics to further an agenda doesn't
> mean all research into a subject should be curtailed.
>
> >  It is reasonable to assume that after Assange, Snowden and all the
> >  more minor cases of cyber activists and pirates already in prison, the
> >  data collected by such studies will not be used in a campaign to
> >  foster the hacker(space) community and see it flourish.
>
> We're probably more at risk from cyber activists than researchers.
>
> >  Fefe has a few points lined out here in german:
> >  http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=afed4222 <http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=afed4222>for those interested.
>
> I have no idea who fefe is... but that's a boss name.
>
> > I'm not saying don't cooperate or all researcher on this topic is evil
> > to begin with - but think about how little is known about the
> > social/networking structures of current day bankers, politicians,
> > lobbyists and their potential political implications. Maybe keep that
> > in mind, and the fact that the hacker community already has much more
> > open resources publicly on the web than those groups when answering
> > any such questions.
>
> I think you don't speak for anyone but yourself.  And I think research
> seeks to discover truth, not further an agenda.  If you wish to criticize a
> research technique for bringing with it bias... by all means.  But
> suggesting research should be curtailed for any reason especially fear of
> how it may be used is about as un-hacker like as it gets.
>
> -matt
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Don Ankney <dankney at hackerco.de> wrote:
>
>>  I'd amend the statement that hacker doesn't mean security researcher to
>> hacker doesn't necessarily mean security researcher. In some spaces, it
>> actually does.
>>  ------------------------------
>> From: Alan Fay <emptyset at freesideatlanta.org>
>> Sent: 1/15/2014 12:14 PM
>>
>> To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List <discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org>
>> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Master's thesis
>>
>>   On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Philip Poten <philip.poten at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> It is not that the authors of such studies are of malicious intent,
>>> but rather that the studies can be used as a means of developing
>>> policies, counter tactics and infiltration programs.
>>>
>>
>>  Can you elaborate on this?  Are you speaking from experience?
>>
>>  I don't know what you have going on in your hackerspace, but at
>> Freeside we're mostly just a bunch of people working on personal and hobby
>> projects (think Arduino powered birdhouse with LEDs, not so much
>> anti-surveillance tech).  This could be a southeastern US hackerspace
>> experience; I only know of a few west coast US hackerspaces seem to have an
>> activist element, and I can't speak for the rest of the world.
>>
>>  We joke that it would be awesome to have a corporate/government mole at
>> Freeside; they'd be the ones doing the dishes and keeping the space clean.
>>  I mean, if some corporation is seriously threatened by some geeks with
>> half-working 3D printers, then that company needs some serious
>> introspection on how they conduct business and why they're slumming it at
>> the local hackerspace, searching for innovation and competitive edge.
>>
>>
>>> Fefe has a few points lined out here in german:
>>> http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=afed4222 for those interested.
>>>
>>
>>  From the Google-translated German (I don't know German), is he implying
>> that some front group did a study for BP on activists?  Is there any solid
>> proof of that?  I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just curious.
>>
>>  If that is true, then BP must be seriously fragile if they fear some
>> protesters can actually produce any negative effects on their business
>> practices and profits - and that should be some really good news to the
>> people against BP, because it's news to me that the activist tactics of the
>> last decade has substantially altered the balance of power to favor
>> working-class people and consumers, in any context.
>>
>>
>>> I'm not saying don't cooperate or all researcher on this topic is evil
>>> to begin with - but think about how little is known about the
>>> social/networking structures of current day bankers, politicians,
>>> lobbyists and their potential political implications. Maybe keep that
>>> in mind, and the fact that the hacker community already has much more
>>> open resources publicly on the web than those groups when answering
>>> any such questions.
>>>
>>
>>  It's that accessibility to resources that makes hackerspaces an
>> attractive topic (and maybe some of it is people with no clue that the
>> "hacker" in hackerspace does not mean "black hat netsec researcher").  Most
>> researchers and journalists aren't going to do the investigative legwork
>> required to truly look into the byzantine mess of bankers, politicians, and
>> lobbyists - precisely because it's difficult work, very inaccessible, and
>> this type of work even when paraded in front of the public, rarely results
>> in even moderate changes to that entrenched system, so it's ultimately
>> completely unrewarding.
>>
>>  I'm not saying this work isn't essential or important, but given a
>> choice between studying an open group and a closed, shadowy group the
>> former is a lot easier.
>>
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>>
>
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