[hackerspaces] Cash flow?

[Edward L Platt]

I'd like to clarify something about recurring payments.  This is important,
because in my experience, it's the difference between treasurer being a 20
hours/week job or a 10 hours/month job. If you use a service like Amazon
Payments, you are notified each time you are billed, and you are able to
cancel the payments at any time without any action or approval from the
company the payments go to.  This is different from a payment where you
have given the company your checking account or credit card info directly,
which is the case the above poster is describing.

-Ed

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 10:47 AM, B F <bakmthiscl at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Gold Boolean"?  I like that.  Sounds like a good investment!  8^)
>
> My makerspace is very fortunate -- we pay no rent.  Makes finances a
> great deal simpler.
>
> I want to chime in that under NO circumstances would I agree to an
> automatic payment to a makerspace (or to most other entities).  I've
> been forced to use automatic payment to pay for health insurance
> because I was given no choice.  I allow CC companies to take minimum
> payments by auto-payment because it saves ME lots of fees if I'm late
> with a payment.  I don't like those, but I tolerate them.
>
> I will NEVER use auto-payment when there's ANY alternative -- until
> Congress passes laws to protect the consumer.
>
> If somebody forges your check -- you have no liability.  You can pass
> out blank checks on the street corner and you still have no liability!
>  (Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration.)
>
> If somebody steals your CC and you report it  you're liable for only
> the first $50 of false charges.  (You MUST report it in writing,
> remember!  The phone call is just an early alert for the CC to put a
> hold on your account.  It takes a written letter to effect the
> protections.)  And you can apply for reimbursement even for the $50 if
> it should have been obvious to the CC company that you hadn't
> authorized the charge.
>
> Why is this?  Because there are specific legal remedies for forged
> checks and for false use of CC's.
>
> There are NO such remedies for false automatic payments, false use of
> debit cards, and other "authorized" direct use of your CC's or bank
> account.  There SHOULD be, but there aren't.  Once you "authorize" the
> payment, you have no recourse.  (In the case of automatic minimum
> payment on a CC, you MAY be able to limit the amount per month of such
> a payment.)
>
> Case in point:  A friend of a friend had opted for automatic payment
> of his natural gas bill.  One month, his bill should have been
> $160.00.  Somebody missed the decimal point and $16,000 was taken from
> his bank -- draining his checking AND savings accounts, and resulting
> in bounced checks and fees.
>
> When he called the gas company, they acknowledged the error, but said
> they had no way to cut him a check, and offered him a credit of
> $16,000 -- money sufficient to pay his gas bill for the next decade or
> so, of course with no interest to be paid on the yet-unused portion.
>
> There was NO offer of reimbursement of fees and penalties, much less
> making things right for all the bounced check fees his creditors had
> suffered as a result of his drained accounts -- fees he ultimately
> will be billed for.
>
> The gas company is a regulated industry.  This poor sucker has
> remedies through the BPU to get the overpayment back.  But if he wants
> all the other fees he and his creditors suffered to be reimbursed,
> he'll have to file a lawsuit -- there are NO other remedies.
>
> And if this had been, say, a private oil company instead of a public
> utility, a lawsuit would be the only remedy at all.  And if the oil
> company happened to go bankrupt before he collected his money, too bad
> -- he'd lose it all.
>
> So if you think I'm going to open my bank account or CC to hackers I
> only slightly know -- well, think again.  It won't happen.
>
> OTOH, I WOULD pay months ahead if I were confident the makerspace
> would remain open for that long and if I were given a discount for
> doing so that exceeded the interest I'd earn by hanging onto it.
>
> Since interest rates are scarcely 1% these days, that would not take
> much of a discount.  If you monetize the hassle and uncertainty of
> chasing down delinquent members, it might well be feasible to offer a
> 5% discount on a 6-month prepaid membership, and a 10% discount on a
> 12-month prepaid membership.
>
> One more thing -- don't go the 501c3 route without doing some
> significant research first.  Record keeping can be a killer,
> especially for an all-volunteer group.  The best way to become 501c3
> it is to have somebody else do it -- like by being under a parent
> organization that is already 501c3.
>
> Remember that the ONLY good reason for 501c3 status is that you expect
> to receive SUBSTANTIAL contributions from people or corporations who
> want the tax deduction.  If those aren't in the cards anyway, don't
> bother.
>
> Suggestions:  a number of makerspaces could get together as a single
> corporation and hire a CPA to do the 501c3 paperwork for all of them.
>
> BF
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>



-- 
Edward L. Platt
http://elplatt.com
http://civic.mit.edu/users/elplatt
http://i3detroit.com
@EdwardLPlatt <http://twitter.com/EdwardLPlatt>
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